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JUL 2 8 1998 






ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 15, 1998 
1:35 P.M. 


Reported by 




ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 15, 1998 
1:35 P.M. 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 

3 1223 03273 6523 










GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 





California State Lottery Commission 

4 49383 SFPL: ECONO JRS 
75 SFPL 06/06/03 18 





Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees; 


California State Lottery Commission 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

California Advertising to Entice 

People to Gamble 1 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Plans for Coming Years 2 

Motion to Confirm 2 

Committee Action 3 

Termination of Proceedings 3 

Certificate of Reporter 4 


SENATOR LEWIS: Governor's appointee appearing 
today, Mr. Daniel Apodaca/ Member^ California State Lottery 

Mr. Apodaca, welcome to the Committee, sir. 

MR. APODACA: Good afternoon. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Do you have any kind of prepared 
statement you'd like to give us? 

MR. APODACA: I do not. 

I've been reappointed by the Governor. My first 
appointment started in April of 1992. I was recently 
reappointed for an additional five years. 

SENATOR LEWIS: To get this going, I'm going to 
ask you the same question I've asked a couple of other Lottery 
Commission appointees in the past, and that is, are you troubled 
at all by the notion of an arm of state government using moneys 
to advertise, entice people to try to gamble in the State of 

MR. APODACA: I'm more troubled — well, possibly 
ambivalent about the fact that the government is — state 
government is in the gambling business. However, it is 

SENATOR LEWIS: Any questions for Mr. Apodaca, 
Members of the Committee. 

SENATOR HUGHES: This will be your second time? 

MR. APODACA: Yes, ma'am. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Your second appointment. 

How do you look back, and how feel about your 
previous service, and what do you plan on doing in the in coming 

MR. APODACA: I would think continuing to 
maximize the revenues so that we can continue to increase our 
contribution to education. 

Getting through what we call the Bridge Project, 
which is — unfortunately may entail laying off some of our 
employees, getting that behind us and moving ahead. 

We have some pretty ambitious plans for this that 
have already been set in motion. 

SENATOR HUGHES: No further questions 

SENATOR LEWIS: Any other questions. Members of 
the Committee? Everybody's anxious to get out of here today. 


SENATOR LEWIS: Anyone wishing to testify in 
favor of the nomination? Anyone wishing to testify in 
opposition or raising concerns? Mr. Popejoy? No. 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Hughes. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 


Four to zero. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton, 

SENATOR LEWIS: Congratulations, sir — 
MR. APODACA: Thank you very much. 
[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN LEWIS' 
Aye vote was added pursuant 
to Senate Rule 28.7, making 
the finale vote 5-0.] 

[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 1:43 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 


1, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

jy IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 

/O"^ day of C_^..^^-v>-e^ , 1998. 

'EyELY}( J. MTZAK ^ 
Shorthand Reporter 


Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 


Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 358-R when ordering. 






DOC» »^*«^»^''rc n^pT. 


JUL 2 8 1998 





ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 22, 1998 
1:37 P.M. 





ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 22, 1998 
1:37 P.M. 

Reported by 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 










GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 





California State University 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees; 


California State University 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Familiarity with Negotiations between 

CSU and Employee Organizations 3 

Request to Keep Committee Apprised 3 

How State College System Became 

State University System 3 

Importance of Adequately Training 

New Teachers 4 

Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Position on Increasing Student Fees 4 

Statements by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Nominee is Democrat 5 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Quality of Instruction at CSU 6 

Comparison with UC System 6 

Charter Schools 6 

Specialized Schools Connected to 

Universities » 7 

Position on Eliminating Ethnic Studies 8 

Motion to Confirm 9 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Acquaintance with TOMMY ROSS 9 


Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Number of Trustees 9 

Democrats on Board of Trustees 9 

Committee Action 10 

Termination of Proceedings 10 

Certificate of Reporter 11 

— ooOoo — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Robert Foster, will you come 
and be sworn. 

MR. FOSTER: Mr. Chairman and Members, my name is 
Bob Foster. I'm Senior Vice President for Edison International 
in Southern California Edison. 

I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear 
before you today. I'm here for a hearing on confirmation for 
the California State University system. And just briefly, I'd 
like to give you a little background and the reasons why I'd 
like this position. 

I have, as you may see from my resume, over 25 
years of government and business experience in California. I'm 
a graduate of the CSU system from San Jose State in 1969. 

I believed then, as I believe now, that it is a 
great university system. It is one of the most, if not the 
most, accessible and affordable systems in the world. I'm 
thankful for the preparation that it gave me to participate in 
policy decisions, actually some of them with Members of this 
house, and in my business career. It gave me a very good 
background in which to pursue interest in business. 

I asked to be appointed to this position, and I'm 
sure you hear this a great deal, because I truly wanted to give 
back to an institution in this state that has given me so much. 
I wanted to use my background in business and government to help 
the university system, and, more importantly, to help today's 
and tomorrow's students be as well prepared or better prepared 

than we were. 

You'll notice that, as I mention, I have a 
background and have participated in a number of policy 
decisions, particularly energy policy. I then had the unique 
experience of having to go over to the Energy Commission as an 
administrator and implement those policies. I have to tell you 
that it was a humbling experience, one I think most people 
should have, of actually having to go over and implement 
something you had a hand in drafting. It opened my eyes to a 
lot of things. 

I then moved to business, where I think I've 
gained a substantial amount of management experience. I've been 
able to work with people as well as institutions. 

And I realize that the State University system 
has a number of challenges ahead of it. They range from the 
substantial influx of new students, to larger enrollment, to 
teacher education, to advanced technology, trying to bring the 
State University system if not to the cutting edge, at least 
close with computer systems, and perhaps most importantly, of 
all, the preparation of students, or better preparation of 
students so that we can really try to have some reduction out of 
remedial math and English necessary for incoming freshman. 

I approach this position with enthusiasm and 
commitment. I want to thank you for your consideration on this 
appointment, and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may 
have . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Are you familiar at all with 
what's going on in negotiations between CSU and various employee 

organizations at all. Bob? 

MR. FOSTER: Only in a general way, 
Mr. Chairman. I was just recently assigned to the Collective 
Bargaining Committee/ and I have not been fully briefed on that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: There was real problem just in 
attitude by the University system. Then Chuck Reed, I met with 
him and people from the faculty groups. In other words, I 
think, like, the hostility was gone, but you're just getting 
involved in that. 

If you could kind of keep us apprised of what's 
going on, it would be greatly appreciated. 

MR. FOSTER: I ' d be happy to. Senator. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I assume that when you went to 
San Jose State it was a State College? 

MR. FOSTER: It was a State College; that's 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you know how the State 
College system became the State University system? 

MR. FOSTER: No, I do not know that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you want to know? 

MR. FOSTER: I do. Enlighten me. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Assemblyman Captain Richard 
Barnes, U.S.N. Retired, carried the bill for years and years. 
He's from San Diego, and it was really just kind of, let's give 
Captain Barnes a bill. 

And then the next time he ran for re-election, he 
claimed he doubled the size of the University system of 
California and got beat by Larry Kapiloff, I might add. So, no 

good deed goes unpunished. 

I personally think that they are lucky to have 
you there. I think your political experience around here, along 
the same with, I think. Chancellor Reed, who combines academia 
and political sense, helps, because too often the people 
involved in the higher education don't quite get it. 

One of the things I think is very important, and 
when I went to State, which was still a college in the college 
system then, and ours were basically state teachers colleges, 
is, I think it's very important for the State Universities who 
are turning out the teachers, that really they figure out better 
ways to train the teachers to deal with what's going on today. 
I think part of the problem with the educational system is that 
a lot of the teachers in it were not adequately trained. 

Questions? Senator Hughes. I'm sorry. Senator 

SENATOR HUGHES: I heard Senator Knight, so I 
yield to Senator Knight. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I was going to yield to the 
senior member of the Committee, Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, shoot, go ahead. Senator 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Colonels understand RHIP; 

SENATOR AYALA: I only have one question. 

What is your position as it pertains to 
increasing student fees in your system? If you do increase 
them, should a portion of that go back for student aid in terms 

of financial assistance for the students to be able to 
participate in the system? 

MR. FOSTER: Senator, first of all, as you know, 
I would do all I could to prevent increases in student fees. I 
think the State University system is, I think, the most 
accessible and affordable in the state. It ought to remain that 

You can't foreclose what might happen in the 
future; you can't foreclose your options. But, I would tell 
you, that would be a last resort to increase student fees. 

There's been some success recently in actually 
reducing fees. Love to see that continue, assuming there's 
budgetary resources to do that. 

SENATOR AYALA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I just was going to comment that my observation 
of Mr. Foster must be that he's an outstanding individual 
appointed or suggested nominee by the Governor, since he's a 
Democrat. That speaks extremely high, so now I know why the 
Chairman was so much in favor of Mr. Foster, so I would support 
his nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much, 
Mr. Foster. 

I appreciate the fact that you have worked these 
halls, and you've been aware of the process extremely well. 

How did you feel about the quality of instruction 

that you got at California State University in terms of the 
teaching methodology/ since they're the ones who are supposed to 
be the super teachers? Did you have super teachers there? 

MR. FOSTER: Yes, I did. I recently had this 
discussion with a friend of mine. I did my undergraduate work 
at San Jose. I completed all my course work at the University 
of California at Davis for a Ph.D., did not finish the degree. 
SO/ I have some experience in that. 

I've always maintained that the education at the 
teaching level I had at San Jose was, I think, superior. And I 
still keep in communication with some of the professors I had. 
I thought it was a marvelous experience. They just were 

SENATOR HUGHES: How did you compare that to your 
experience at UC? 

MR. FOSTER: I did have good teachers at the 
University of California. I think — and this tends to be a 
cliche, but there is a greater emphasis on research at that 
institution. And I think, to some degree, I think instruction 
suffers a little bit from that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: There is a lot of talk about 
charter schools and people wanting to increase charter schools. 

I have a bias that I think that a charter school 
connected to a university can be more effective. And I know 
that some of the CSU campuses have charter schools connected to 
their universities. 

Do you know anything about these charter schools, 
and do you share that same kind of bias that I share, that they 

have someone helping them and assisting them to meet their 
goals? Or, as a new Trustee, are you going to be looking into 

MR. FOSTER: I do not have enough information on 
that. I'm not fully apprised of the connection with charter 

I will say one of the things that attracts me 
about the State University system is the emphasis on the 
connection with the K-12 system in general. We have a goal that 
by 2007, to drop the current rate of students, incoming students 
needing remedial training in math and English from nearly 50 
percent to 10 percent. You cannot do that without clear 
linkages to the K-12 system. It's vital. It's one of the four 
things I mentioned as top priorities for the CSU system. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Are you aware of the fact that 
at Cal. State Dominguez Hills, they have a specialized high 
school that deals with math and science that I was able to 
create through some legislation a few years ago? 

Do you think those specialized schools connected 
with the university — like Cal. State L.A., you have the High 
School of Music and Art, and at Cal. State Dominguez Hills — as 
a Regent, would you be supportive of the expansion of other 
specialized high schools with the University system? 

MR. FOSTER: I believe that's consistent with 
increasing the linkages between K-12, so yes, I would. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The University of California, 
one of the Regents recently proposed that ethnic studies be done 
away at the University of California. 


If this came before your Regents, Board of 
Trustees, would you be for or against, or what would be your 
thought on this topic? 

MR. FOSTER: Well, I'd have to know why that was 
being proposed, what the nature of it — what the consequences 
would be, really. 

I haven't looked at that, and I have not heard 
that proposed at the Trustee level. 

SENATOR HUGHES: If it is proposed, what would be 
your thoughts? How would you begin to evaluate it, one way or 
the other? 

MR. FOSTER: I'd have to give that some thought. 
It's not something I've really thought of recently. 

I'd like to know what the motivation is behind 
removing the ethnic programs. I'm not very familiar with ethnic 
studies. I'd like to know what the purpose of eliminating them 
would be, how well they've operated until now, how well students 
have done, where they've gone. 

But I can't — it seems to me that they were 
crieated for some purpose, and to wholesale eliminate them, I 
think you'd have to look very hard before you did that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much. 

MR. FOSTER: You're welcome. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Costa. 

SENATOR COSTA: Mr. Roos wanted me to speak on 
Mr. Foster's behalf. 

MR. FOSTER: Is there any way we can stop that. 
[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Sergeant, could you see if 
Erwin is around? 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move the nomination, 
and I'd defer to anyone else. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Actually just one question. 

I think I support your confirmation, but I just 
have one question. 

Do you now know or have you ever known Tommy 

MR. FOSTER: Actually, I have; I've known him. 
And I want to say publicly now, I've never liked him. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR LEWIS: Move the confirmation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other questions Members of 
the Committee? Call the roll. 

Any support, opposition? 

Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: There are 24 members? 

MR. FOSTER: I believe that's correct. 

SENATOR AYALA: And you're the only Democrat. 
That's the right balance. I think it's about equal. 

MR. FOSTER: I think Mr. Hauck is a Democrat as 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're a Democrat? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, I thought that's why you 
were supportive. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I thought I was doing the 


Republicans a favor. 

Call the roll, please. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Hughes. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

MR. FOSTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Committee, 

thank you. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 1:37 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 



1, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California/ do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
S^^ day of ^-yfl^^-^^-'^ , 1998. 


orthand'' Reporter 


Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 


Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 359-R when ordering. 




JUL 2 8 1998 





ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 29, 1998 
1:40 P.M. 





ROOM 113 


MONDAY, JUNE 29, 1998 
1:40 P.M. 

Reported by 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 










PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 





California State University 


California State University 

California Student Aid Commission 

Fish and Game Commission 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees: 


California State University 1 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 2 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Regulatory Things Commission Does to 

Help or Hinder Future Teachers 5 

Position on Ethnic Studies 6 

Charter Schools Tied to Universities 7 

Free-standing Charter Schools 8 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Difficulty in Obtaining Courses 

Needed for Degree 10 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Length of Teaching Day at Universities 11 

Ability of Campuses to Extend Teaching 

Hours . 12 

Problem of Faculty Compensation 12 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Appointments with Terms that Run into 

Term of New Governor 13 

Hold in Committee without Prejudice 13 

Statements by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Possibility of Confirmation after 

November Election 14 


Motion to Hold Nomination in Committee 15 

Committee Action 15 


California State University 15 

Background and Experience 16 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Teacher Training Programs 18 

Outreach Programs 19 

Position on Ethnic Studies 19 

Views on Charter Schools 20 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Appointment Extends into Term of 

Future Governor 21 

Witness in Support: 


California Student Aid Commission 22 

Motion to Hold in Committee 24 

Statements by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Impressed with Nominee 24 

Committee Action 25 


California Fish and Game Commission 25 

Background and Experience 25 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Desire to Hold Appointment in 

Committee without Vote and Put 

Over to Future Meeting 27 

Statements by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Votes on Issues 28 

Termination of Proceedings 29 

Certificate of Reporter 30 

1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 — ooOoo — 

3 CHAIRMAN BURTON: The first gubernatorial 

4 appointee we'll hear today is Alice Petrossian, California State 

5 University. 

6 Senator Schiff. 

7 SENATOR SCHIFF: Mr. Chairman, Members, it gives 

8 me great pleasure to introduce to you and ask your consideration 

9 for Alice Petrossian for appointment to the CSU Board of 

10 Trustees. 

11 Alice came to this country at age nine from 

12 Iran. She was of Armenian ancestry, did not speak English, 

13 enrolled in the L.A. Unified school system, where she excelled. 

14 This began a long career and love affair with education. 

15 After going through the Los Angeles Unified 

16 school system, she went on to community college in Los Angeles. 

17 She went on to the California State University system, earning 

18 her teaching credential. And then, not unlike our former Pro 

19 Tern, Senator Lockyer, began her career teaching in Hayward. 

20 She distinguished herself very quickly as an 

21 educator, and earned appointments first to the statewide 

22 Commission on Teacher Credentialing by Governor Jerry Brown, 

23 later reappointed by Governor Deukmejian, and in 1992 was 

24 appointed by Governor Wilson to the Community College Board of 

25 Trustees, where she now serves as President of the governing 

26 board. 

27 In 1997, she was appointed by Governor Wilson to 

28 the CSU Board of Trustees, and it's her confirmation that I want 

1 to speak to and recommend today. 

2 Alice is in the City of Glendale with the 

3 Glendale Unified School District as an Assistant 

4 Superintendent. She has distinguished herself, I think, not 

5 only in our district and our community as a very fine educator, 

6 but has in everything she has undertaken on a statewide basis. 

7 She has, throughout her service in her statewide 

8 positions, exercised a very strong degree of independence, 

9 taking positions on many issues, many propositions — such as 

10 187, and 209, and 227 — which often subjected her to very 

11 strong differences of opinion, not only within her own party, 

12 but often among a majority of folks in the state. That did not 

13 prevent Ms. Petrossian from expressing her view on the issues or 

14 her mind of what she felt was in the best interests of children 

15 and education. 

16 And it's because of that independence of 

17 judgment, it's because of her record of service in the district, 

18 that I have borne the indulgence of our Chair, repeatedly coming 

19 to see you. And Senator Burton, I really appreciate your time 

20 on this. 

21 I'm pleased today to make an unqualified 

22 recommendation of Alice Petrossian for the CSU Board of 

23 Trustees. 

24 MS. PETROSSIAN: I'd like to thank my 

25 distinguished Senator. He has in a short time won the hearts of 

26 many Glendalians and has become a friend. 

27 We don't politically always agree, but that's 

28 part of the beauty of it, and that's part of the beauty of our 

democracy, is that we can still be friends and agree where we 
can, and disagree when we need to. 

He has been truly a supporter in this process, as 
have other Senators, including a very strong vote of 
appreciation to Senator Dede Alpert for her support in this 
process. She is also another good friend. 

This has been an exciting time. I was not 
expecting to be appointed to the CSU Trustees. I had finished 
my time with the California Community Colleges, serving eight 
years, and said that it was time for me to return to my 
district, where I had just been promoted as Assistant 
Superintendent . 

And a Governor that I respect greatly. Governor 
Wilson, who has been more than a friend, even when we didn't see 
eye to eye, he continued to support me and be the true gentleman 
that he is, listen to my perspective, give me his and say, we 
agree to disagree. It's certainly a man I respect greatly and 
have had the privilege of serving for the last two terms that he 
has been in office. 

He said if I wouldn't mind, he was moving me on 
to the CSU system for a number of reasons. The first he 
expressed very strongly was having to do with the K-12 system. 
Since the CSU issues will be mostly working with the K-12 system 
and teacher education issues, and my background from K-12, 
working there daily, as well as my background with the 
Commission on Teacher Credentialing, provides me the insight to 
being supportive on credentialing issues and working with 
teacher education, I looked forward to that. 

He also said that he felt very strongly that he 
needed someone who was in the field daily, practicing, knowing 
what it is we needed to do, and how it was we could improve the 
teacher preparation arena, and what could be done in the areas 
of partnership. 

Well, being every day in the wonderful Glendale 
Unified School District, the ninth largest limited English 
proficient school district, with over 70 percent of the children 
coming from diverse backgrounds, is an experience that I have 
professionally gained from. 

Last but not least, the CSU and community college 
system have needed an opportunity to articulate. Having served 
on that Board, the Governor felt that the articulation and the 
knowledge that could be brought by having the transition of one 
board member to the next board would be extremely valuable. 

With that, I'd like to say that it has been a 
tremendous opportunity to serve both systems who helped an 
immigrant child, a very poor immigrant child, succeed and sit 
before you today. And I'm proud of those opportunities. It 
could not have happened without the California Community College 
system, and the California State University system. 

And if I can help bring those kinds of 
opportunities to students from all walks of life and make it 
better for them, the way it's been for me, I would be very proud 
to serve. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Good afternoon. How are you, 

MS. PETROSSIAN: Just fine. 

SENATOR HUGHES: From the experience that you 
had/ you were a Chair of the Commission for Teacher 
Credentialing, what kind of insight did you have that you could 
bring to bear as you become a Trustee for the State University 
system that train 90 percent of the future teachers of our 

What regulatory things does the Commission do 
that helps or hinders people? Because we have a great shortage 
of qualified, credentialed teachers. 

Could you shed some light as a Trustee what you 
would do in that regard? 

MS. PETROSSIAN: I believe the Board has already 
started a tremendous review of the whole teacher preparation. 
There was a wonderful report called "The President's Report". 
There are other studies. Certainly, Senator Hart's work in this 
area has shed a great deal of light. 

In California, we have basically two options. 
Given the shortage, we can take — as you well know, and I know 
this is your background, so I feel like I'm talking to an expert 
on this — but we can either take emergency credentialed 
teachers, someone who has a college degree and a C-BEST, and 
fingerprinted, and walks into the classroom, and has very little 
pedagogical knowledge. 

That's like having a pilot, who's never flown a 
plane, decide to fly my plane. And I sure don't want to be 
riding on that flight. 

I'd rather see us become more flexible with 

credentialing regulations and allow the university to look at a 
four-year option direct BA. Look at any number of options that 
have been recommended by the system themselves in order to 
provide some level of pedagogical knowledge before the student 
walks in the classroom and tries to teach phonics, or tries to 
teach reading comprehension, or tries to prepare our children as 
the Standards Commission, which I've also had the privilege of 
serving on, has had, to have students ready for algebra and math 
in seventh and eighth grade. 

If teachers themselves are not prepared to 
deliver the course of study, then students will never reach the 
standards we have in mind for California. 

But in order to get some level of preparation, 
the Commission, which I've given a whole lifetime to — as you 
well recall. We worked together on it ten years — I believe 
needs to now meet the flexibility and allow the university 
system to make some judgment calls as to what is best versus 
putting someone without any education in the classroom beyond a 

SENATOR HUGHES: What value or worth do you feel 
that ethnic studies has, if any, in the State University system, 
since some Regents of the UC system are now questioning that. 
If this issue comes before the Trustees, what will be your 

MS. PETROSSIAN: Senator Hughes, I think you know 
my track record. I believe very, very strongly — 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'm asking you the same question 
I asked the last Trustee that was before us. This was not 

targeted at you. 

MS. PETROSSIT^: All right, fine. 

Not having been here, I didn't know that. All 

I feel very strongly that study of anyone's 
history and culture only enhances our knowledge in an economic 
global society that we need to be competitive in. And if 
there's an opportunity to study the culture of those members of 
our citizenship, whether it be Hispanic, African-American, 
Asian, or anyone else, that would enhance our knowledge of how 
to work together and live in a very peaceful state, I believe 
ethnic studies can provide that. 

I do not believe in ethics studies that would 
call for division and bring about a concern about, are we one, 
and can we work as one. 

But I believe the identity of each culture is 
important, and for us to have that knowledge will be extremely 
valuable. And I would study — I would support ethnic studies. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What about charter schools? 
There are couple of charter school programs that are tied to 
individual campuses of the California State University system. 

How do you feel about those? 

MS. PETROSSIAN: I think that the University 
system, CSU specifically, has had a long track record of working 
with and helping the K-12 system, not only by producing its 
employees, but by also giving role models, such as Cal. State 
L.A. in the arts, Dominguez Hills in the math and science. 
Those are outstanding role models of partnership. And I believe 


the system needs, with all the expertise and knowledge that 
exists there, and all the research that goes on, needs to be a 
partner with the K-12 system. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Since Cal . State L.A. is your 
alma mater, what do you think of the charter school affiliated 
with Cal. State L.A? 

MS. PETROSSIAN: I think it would be a superb 
idea to work with those partnerships, and I know that both the 
President and the Dean have already begun work in that arena and 
are proud to say, now, look at the downtown school that's about 
to be established. 

My issue would be rigorous curriculum so that 
students in that area would have an absolute equal access to the 
highest universities in the state and the nation, so it would be 
what we provide there. And I think with the partnership with 
CSU, that would be available because of the wealth of knowledge 
that is there. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you think of 
free-standing charter schools? I have little or no problem, and 
I'm just relating my biases, with the charter schools tied into 
universities, because I think universities provide oversight and 

What do you think of other free-standing charter 

I'm asking you this as an educator. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: All right. 

I believe that the K-12 is overly regulated. I 
supported Governor Wilson in trying to deregulate the K-twelve 


I'm not very tall, but when I stand up, and you 
match the Ed. Code, and it's taller than I am, I have a real 
problem with that. 

I think there's a lot of code that is 
unnecessary. And if we're saying to charter schools that you no 
longer have to follow those Ed. Codes, I'd like to see us expand 
that and say, if these Ed. Codes are unnecessary, let's apply it 
to all schools. 

If they're necessary, then let's apply it to — 
you know, for the safety of children, finger printing of 
employees, et cetera, safety and security of children has got to 
be utmost. 

But I believe that anywhere where a partnership 
can be developed with the CSU system — and if the UCs were 
willing to develop a partnership that would be outstanding — 
then that's where it ought to be, because in any venture, a 
number of partners make it successful. 

And higher education partnership can serve a 
number of ways. It can serve as a role model for the children 
who attend there. They can begin to say, I can make it there; I 
can go to college. And since a number of our charter schools 
are working with the at-risk and the underprivileged in our 
state, it would be an excellent opportunity for them to have 
these partnerships. 

And I would say charter schools are great, but 
since those regs are not applicable to them, I'd like to see 
those rules apply to every public school in the state. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis, thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I just wanted to ask you, one of 
the things we've been hearing in the last several years about is 
the difficulty of obtaining classes needed to get a degree. 

Do you sense that there's some improvement 

MS. PETROSSIAN: A couple of things. 

Yes, there's been slight improvement, but I will 
not say to you, looking at the data and listening to our new 
Chancellor, who has strong commitments, specifically in the area 
of getting classes for teacher education. 

What we're seeing is, we need to enhance the 
opportunity for all those who want to enter the system, to give 
them the right to have course work. 

Recently reading articles, including comments by 
our own new Chancellor Reed, that talked about extending the 
school year, nothing stops the CSU system from having a totally 
year-round year, given the need and the increased need for 
capacity. Nothing stops us from having weekend courses. 
Nothing stops us from using the day fully, from 7:00 A.M. to 
10:00 P.M. if necessary, the way most community colleges have 
now gone on because of a shortage of facilities. 

There's no way with brick and mortar that the 
state is going to meet the needs, facility needs. As much as we 
do, and I hope the bond does get on very soon, but even with 
that, we are going to need to have facilities and faculty that 
are full-time to meet the needs of the students so that they can 



The longer, Senator, we keep a student within the 
system, the more the taxpayer has to invest in that student. 
And it would behoove us to work in a schedule that would allow a 
student to graduate at a pace that is valuable, both to the 
student, who then becomes, hopefully, an employed member of our 
society and pays taxes, as well as, is not continuing just to 
take courses to be taking courses within a system. 

So, I have strong feelings, and I believe our 
Chancellor and Board have already gone on record talking about 
looking at the way to provide more support. 

The key is access. I have a strong feeling that 
everyone who is interested in higher education should have equal 
access to those courses so that they can meet their ultimate 

CHAIRMAN BURTON; I imagine schools can stay open 
until 10:00 o'clock. When I went to State College, I took 
classes from 7:00 to 10:00, so I'm missing something here. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: No, there are courses that do 
occur in that time line, but there are also — well, now, what 
I've been told is that the CSU average age and number of 
campuses is 28 years or slightly that. You know, people who are 
employed, and they would need more courses offered at flexible 
hours so they can continue their employment in order for them to 

When I went to college too, sir, at Cal. State 
L.A. the options of courses in the evening were limited. They 
were courses — many of our Ccimpuses are open that late. But I 


think it's important to know what are the greatest need courses 
and offer those courses so that people can meet — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Isn't that something any campus 
could do now, or do they need some action by the Trustees? 

MS. PETROSSIAN: They can do it now, sir. It's 
just again, there's some funding issues. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: There's been a problem between 
the professors and Trustees, I guess, for want of a better word, 
when they were discussing compensation. I think it took a 
meeting in my office with Chuck Reed to try to get things 

You haven't been on the Board, so you wouldn't be 
aware . 

MS. PETROSSIAN: No. I've had the privilege of 
attending three Board meetings, and I'm not on the Compensation 

But faculty are extremely valuable. They are the 
heart of the system, and we need to work together make sure we 
retain the best in competition with private sector or private 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: One of the concerns, at least 
that some of the Members on this Committee have, and it's, as I 
understand, that you were appointed exactly when? 

MS. PETROSSIAN: December. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: December, so your term runs 
through December of this year. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: That's right. 

SENATOR HUGHES: January 2nd of '99. 


MS. MICHEL: Her term goes to 2005. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: One of the concerns that we 
have, by and large, is looking at a lame-duck Governor, looking 
at terms that will run far into the term of a new Governor, be 
it Gray Davis or Dan Lungren, that it would be at least my 
thought, and there's several people within that category, is to 
have the hearings, to without prejudice hold them in the 
Committee, and then try to figure out exactly which way we would 
go on a lot of these individuals. 

I don't know if Lieutenant Governor Davis was 
Governor, whether he would appoint you. Given some of your 
background, he might well. I assume Dan Lungren might or might 

But we are somewhat loathe to be jumping into the 
next Governor's position on some of these appointments. 

So, it would be any that are not actually moved 
out of Committee today or at the next meeting, it's not without 
prejudice, the fact that we have time to move them out in the 
future if the Committee does that, because we do have a lot of 
time before your one-year time is up. 

We have speakers in support, please? 

We do have letters. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: Just some friends, close 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And we do have letters of 
support from Senator Russell, Senator Solis, Senator Alpert, 
Association of School administrators, and the Southern 
California Gas Company, Michael Murray, Director, State Agency. 


Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Well, I think that Ms. 
Petrossian has proven her worth, and she has two good 
possibilities that she might be reappointed, whether it's a 
Democrat or a Republican. 

Number one, because, as I remember, you were 
appointed by Jerry Brown. And as I remember. Gray Davis was his 
Chief of Staff. So, Gray knows you, I would imagine. 

And number two, I'm certain that Dan Lungren, if 
he has met anybody in education, he should have met you, and he 
would know you, too. 

And the date that I was correcting, you are not 
finished with your appointment in December. You have until 
January the 2nd. 

So, it seems to me as though you do have time 
after this election period is over. Either one of your two 
friends who would sit in the front office could appoint you, and 
the same thing would be true of anyone else who would be up for 
an appointment to the Trustees at this time. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: I understand that. It makes it 
very difficult, as you know, to operate. That makes those of us 
in this situation more or less lame duck in working within our 
systems to make a difference. That puts us a year of, well, is 
she going to be confirmed or not; do we put her on a committee 
or not. 

And my plea would be that that makes it very 
difficult for good people to operate. 

SENATOR HUGHES: But it also deprives a new 


Governor from making his own appointments. 

So, I would move that we leave this alone at this 
time. I don't think there's an urgency. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Hughes. 


SECRETT^Y WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight No. Senator Lewis. 
Senator Burton. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Three to one. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Without prejudice, it's still 
before the Committee. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: Thank you. 

SENATOR AYALA: Mr. Chairman, may I just add that 
it isn't anything to do with her qualifications, other than it's 
politically motivated in many ways, that we don't want to have a 
lame-duck Governor appointment. 

I want to say I am impressed with your background 
and your capability to do the job. 

MS. PETROSSIAN: I've been proud, sir. Thank 
you. I'm proud of serving Governor Wilson and CSU. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Maridel Moulton. 

MS. MOULTON: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, 


Members of the Senate Rules Committee. 

I appear before you today to ask your support to 
recommend to the full Senate my confirmation as a Trustee of the 
California State University. 

I'm an honors graduate of San Diego State 
University and deeply proud to be an alumna of that campus and 
of the California State University system. 

I have demonstrated virtually throughout my 
entire life a long-standing commitment to public education. 
Serving first as a coordinator of volunteer programs in my 
children's elementary schools, in 1977 I was first elected to a 
position as a trustee of a K-8 school district in Moraga, 
California, where I served twice, two terms in office. 

Following that, I joined the Board of Directors 
of an organization called Ed Source, which deals with K-12 
policy issues in education. I served in that organization for a 
decade, two years as its president. 

I was first appointed to the California Student 
Aid Commission by Governor Wilson in February of 1992. I began 
serving in March of 1993, and I was confirmed by the Senate in 
February of '93. I was reappointed in 1994, and I appeared 
before Senate Rules for a confirmation hearing because I was 
then Chairing the California Student Aid Commission. Senate 
Rules and the full Senate again confirmed my appointment. 

I had the opportunity to lead the Commission 
through several turbulent years to a revitalized position of 
respect and effectiveness in meeting the mission of providing 
important financial access to higher education. 


During my tenure as Chair, the Commission 
resolved serious issues with our technology, which has resulted 
in significant audit findings. We settled a $62 million lawsuit 
against the Federal Department of Education, and more 
importantly, rebuilt a strong, productive working relationship 
with that department. We reduced loan insurance premium rates 
for students in California, significantly increased our market 
share in business, and raised our service satisfaction levels to 
historic highs with the schools and universities. And we 
created, with the support of the Governor and the unanimous 
support of the California Legislature, a nonprofit outcome-based 
entrepreneurial corporation within a state agency. 

I stand on my record of service to public 
education. You can expect from me a high level of 
responsibility in serving, focus on our mission, commitment to 
our students, independent thinking, consensus building skills, 
and a willingness to be held accountable for outcomes. 

We stand at an important and exciting time at the 
CSU. And the CSU will continue to be a vital contributor to 
California's future, through our commitment to providing access 
and excellence in education for the student graduating from high 
school and for the student returning later in life, through our 
teacher training programs, through the utilization of new 
strategies and distance learning, and through finding new ways 
to do our work with increased effectiveness and efficiency. 

I'm unabashedly eager to contribute to that 
future. And I'm happy to answer any questions that you may 
have, and I ask for your confirmation of my appointment. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I think you were probably 
present when I asked Ms. Petrossian some questions. 

Let's go to the beginning about how you feel 
about teacher training programs at the State University system, 
and how you would like to see them changed or remain the way 
they are. 

MS. MOULTON: Senator Hughes, I think my 
experience as a trustee of a K-8 school district gave me the 
opportunity to see the product of those training systems. 

I would concur with Trustee Petrossian in her 
statement that we have, as a system, taken a very aggressive 
position to improve our programs, and largely through 
partnerships in working with the schools where these teachers 
actually work. 

I've been a participant at three Trustee 
meetings, and I believe I've heard over and over that the 
opportunity is for us to work perhaps in different ways, perhaps 
earlier with teachers, rather than holding all of their teacher 
training to their fifth and graduate year, to have more 
established partnerships with local school districts so that the 
cross-over between training and actual practice of teaching is 

I would support any and all of those strategies. 
We have an important mission to train the teachers of tomorrow, 
and I think we need to continue to find new and better ways to 
do that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The University of California 


always brags about their outreach programs. And having taught 
at the State University system, I know that the State University 
has outreach. 

What outreach programs are you aware of that the 
University system has, or what new ones would you like to see 
come about? 

MS. MOULTON: Again, we have a very, very strong 
track record at Cal. State University for significant outreach 
programs. They're an important part of our mission. 

I also. Senator Hughes, have experience from the 
California Student Aid Commission with the Cal. SOAP program. 
The first year I spent on the Commission, I was the liaison from 
the Commission to the Cal. SOAP programs. So, I think I have 
learned over the years the value of trying to reach out to 
students, irrespective of even their culture or ethnic identity 
or gender, to encourage anyone who is capable and interested in 
pursuing higher education to do that. 

I think the one interesting thing is that there 
are many, many outreach programs throughout UC, CSU, the 
community colleges, the high schools. If anything, I would 
encourage us talking with each other about those programs so 
that we don't duplicate efforts, but indeed, consolidate our 
efforts for stronger impact in that area. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Do you think that ethnic studies 
should continue to be options that students would have at the 
State University system? Do they have any worth, any value? 

If this is ever brought up before the Trustee 
Board when you are a member, what will be your stance? 


MS. MOULTON: My approach to understanding any 
kind of a problem like that would be to first ask our staff for 
an analysis of our current existing programs, what their purpose 
is, and what their outcomes are in terms of measuring it. 

I studied both Latin and Spanish in high school 
as a graduate of San Diego High School in San Diego, and I 
studied Spanish in college. 

I think it's difficult to understand the language 
without understanding the context of the culture. I believe 
there's benefit in doing that. 

But truthfully, I haven't had any experience in 
my three Trustee meetings with understanding specifically our 
ethnic studies programs, so I would turn to our faculty and our 
academic affairs professionals to do an evaluation, if there are 
questions raised about those programs. 

Personally, I think the more that we can learn 
about each other — and that's broader. If I were to study the 
California Legislature, I would not just study the bills that 
you pass out. I would want to know about the history and the 
context in which you work. So, I think there's value to that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What are your views about the 
charter schools, especially those charter schools that are 
affiliated with the State University system? 

MS. MOULTON: I will tell you that I am not 
overly familiar with the specifics of which charter schools are 
particularly affiliated with the CSU. You mentioned the program 
at Cal. State Los Angeles. 

I believe charter schools were created to give 


both parents a stronger level of involvement/ and I actually 
support that. The research over the years has shown that parent 
involvement is really a critical, important part of a student's 
outcome in learning. 

I haven't actually had the opportunity to 
evaluate the specific programs that we're affiliated with, but I 
can't imagine how a charter school of any sort could not be 
helped by a close affiliation with a university that trains 
teachers. I would think the expertise would obviously be an 
asset to that school. 

But I honestly can't speak specifically to an 
evaluation of the two programs you mentioned, because I haven't 
had any opportunity to discuss those as a Trustee. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I want you to know, I have a 
deep bias in favor of them affiliated with the university. 
That's a difference. I think because the professors who are 
training teachers are right there on the campus, and they — 

MS. MOULTON: Right. 

SENATOR HUGHES: — and they can correct, help, 
assist where ever they might do so. 

Thank you very much. 

MS. MOULTON: Thanks, Senator Hughes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Ms. Moulton, we're in the same 
situation with you as we were with Ms. Petrossian. We have a 
Governor who's going out of office making an appointment. We're 
being asked basically to appoint into a future Governor's term 
someone whose resume we have, but whom I don't think any of the 
Members of the Committee know, except maybe your local 


Legislator might. 

There was a concern raised about the fact that we 
did appoint, in fact, sent out with a recommendation/ 
Mr. Foster. I think the situation there was, every Member of 
both Houses of the Legislature have worked with him. I've 
worked with him for a period of at least ten years. We knew his 
record; we knew his background, and even surprisingly, as 
Senator Ayala dragged out of him, if confirmed by the whole 
Senate, I guess he'll be the only person on the Board of 
Trustees representing his political party, and Mr. Lewis was 
concerned about somebody that he knew. 

Was that the guy, or was it somebody else? It 
was the other guy. 

So anyway, it's without any prejudice to you, but 
what we're planning to do with appointments that go into the 
next gubernatorial term is to not send them out. I believe your 
date was what, Nancy? 

MS. MICHEL: December 19th. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: December 19th, which also means 
there is time for reflection. It isn't like somebody's term 
ends up tomorrow. 

So, that's basically what our policy is going to 
be on most appointments that are going into the Governor's 

Are there witnesses in support? Come on up, 

MS. JAQUEZ: Good afternoon. Senator Burton and 
Members of the Senate Rules Committee. My name is Delores 


Jaquez, and I am a Senate Rules appointee to the California 
Student Aid Commission. 

I am here to speak on behalf of Ms. Maridel 
Moulton's appointment to the California State University 

I recommend Ms. Moulton without reservations. I 
have been a member of the Commission for over three years, and 
Ms. Moulton was the chairperson for the first two years. 

The Commission achieved an immense amount with 
Ms. Moulton's participation as a member of the Commission as 
well as our leader. In those two years as Chair, she led us 
through bringing better services to students in schools, 
reduction of insurance fees to students, thus lowering the cost 
of aid, and taking the delivery of services closer to the 

The students of California and the financial aid 
community of the state are better for having had her as a member 
of the Commission. 

I urge you to confirm Ms. Moulton as a California 
State University Trustee so that her immense talents will 
continue to benefit the students attending the California State 
University system, and ultimately, California. 

Thank you. 


Any opposition? 

Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Well, Ms. Petrossian's date is 
January the 2nd. Your date is December the 19th. 


We will be meeting in early December, so that we 
will have an opportunity to vote on both of the Trustees prior 
to their expiration dates. 

SO/ I think if I can make a motion for someone 
whose quality of work I know extremely well over a period of 
time, what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. I think 
it's only appropriate that both of these Trustees not have a 
decision made on them until December. 

Unless this body, someone, wants to move 
otherwise, I would move that we hold both of these. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, I just want to say 
that I've been extremely impressed with yourself and 
Ms. Petrossian. I'm sorry that the timing is what it is. This 
happens, I presume, every four years. 

But I just want you to know that I think you've 
answered these questions in a very articulate manner. The 
service that you're providing is very much appreciated, and I 
hope that in December, we'll have the ability to vote yes and to 

MS. MOULTON: Thank you. Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR HUGHES: And I want to make it for the 
record, I have nothing against you. Just merely that I didn't 
know you before should not prejudice me, and does not prejudice 

I was extremely pleased with your articulate 
manner. Your knowledge and your experience on the Student Aid 
Commission is wonderful background for being a Trustee. 


And the same thing is true of Alice Petrossian, 
whom I know extremely well. 

SO/ just the fact that we haven't known each 
other for ten years should not prejudice this Committee's 
judgment, and I think it is only fair to both of you, and fair 
to the Members of the Committee, that we delay it at this time. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Hughes. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight No. Senator Lewis. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis No. Senator Burton. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Three to two. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Ted Weggeland. 

MR. WEGGELAND: Yes, Mr. President Pro Tern. 

Mr. Chairman, Members, I'm Ted Weggeland, and I'm 
here before you today as a Commissioner of the California Fish 
and Game Commission. 

Some of you have known me for few years as I 
represented the 64th Assembly District, the Riverside area, 
between 1992 and 1996 before leaving the Legislature to pursue 
more time with my family and to pursue another career. 


My dates are third week in October. 

I received a phone call from the Governor's 
Office, it must have been last August or September, and was 
asked if I was interested in serving on this Commission. I told 
them at the time that, while I was interested in doing it, I was 
hoping to spend more time with my family and to pursue my 
business career, and wasn't sure if it was feasible. 

Then, a few weeks later, I received another phone 
call. They asked me if I would please consider it again. I 
told them I would consider it. 

And after several conversations with a number of 
different friends of mine from Sacramento and other places, I 
decided to go ahead and pursue the Commission appointment. 

I did so for couple of reasons. Number one, it's 
a limited term. I'm fulfilling the term of two other individuals 
who weren't confirmed. So there is, I think, approximately 
two-and-a-half years left on the term as it is right now. 

So, it's an opportunity to get involved in public 
policy again, and try to contribute in a meaningful way, two 
days a month, and then with the studying and research, a few 
more than that, but it wouldn't take too much of my time, at 
least as Legislature did. 

The other reason I wanted to do it is because of 
the increase in importance, I think, of preserving our 
environment and preserving the wildlife in the State of 

I spent my youth growing up in Southern 
California and hiking in the high Sierra. In fact, that picture 


is fairly familiar to me. I have an appreciation for the 
environment/ for the fish, and for the wildlife that we have to 

I have to say in all candor that it's been 
increased recently, you know, as I have a young son, four years 
old/ and a daughter who's two years old/ whom I hope to take out 
hiking and camping so they can appreciate California and its 
wildlife and its environment. 

SO/ I thought this would be an opportunity to 
serve for a couple of years and give the State of California the 
benefit of/ I think/ reasoned thought and contribute in a 
positive way towards the Commission and preserving our natural 
habitat and wildlife. 

SO/ I'm here before you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What I'd like to dO/ Members/ 
with this nominee/ instead of bringing it to a vote today, to 
see if we can arrange something. 

I've served with Ted and consider him a decent 
guy. As I look at his voting record here, I'm absolutely — 

SENATOR LEWIS: I think he looks kind of 



MR. WEGGELAND: I'm more likely to get your vote 

than John ' s . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I gave him Super Bowl tickets. 
MR. WEGGELAND: That's right/ you did; thank you. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: So what I'd like to do, Ted, is 
put this over. See if we can set up some meetings, and I'd be 


happy to use my staff, with my staff and the opposition, and 
see, you know, what can be done. 

Basically, I'm flying in the face of 
constituency, but I would like to do that. As you say, it's a 
shorter shot than the Trustees and the others. 

Instead of bringing it to a vote and holding it, 
with permission of the Committee, we'll just kind of let it stay 
here, and I'll try to get Mary Shallenberger and just see what 
can be worked through. Then you can always come back and take a 

But I'd just as soon not have it held in the 
Committee, if that's all right. 

Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: We could also put him on the 
Floor without a recommendation. Either way, I'll go along you 
with you. 

However, I was looking at your voting record, 
Ted, and I think I voted with you every time. So, as far as 
these environmentalists who are opposing you, they would have 
probably opposed me, too, if they could. 

I noticed the votes, and I think I voted with you 
every time, the same as you did. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I thank God you're not up for 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR AYALA: I know I won't be appointed to 
Fish and Game when I get out of here. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Anyway, what I'd like to do is 


just do that, then follow through. 

MR. WEGGELAND: Thank you very much. I 

appreciate the opportunity. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 2:15 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 


I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California/ do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

/^ IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
CS^ day of \ Lii^y^^ , 1998. 


:l"^ j. M;t^AK 

Shorthand -Report 



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NOV - 9 1998 



ROOM 113 


1:40 P.M. 

361 -R 




ROOM 113 


1:40 P.M. 

Reported by 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 




GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 
PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 


Agricultural Labor Relations Board 

Youthful Offender Parole Board 

MARY E. Mcdonald, Member 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board 

JOHN D. SMITH, Member 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board 




Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees; 


Agricultural Labor Relations Board 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Decline in Number of Complaints 

and Certified Elections 3 

Most Surprising Things Learned 

from Personal Visits 5 

Questions by SENATOR AYALA re; 

Events at Silliman Ranch 5 

Role of ALRB regarding Those Events 6 

Appropriateness of ALRB Funding 6 

Board's Ability to Avoid Problems 

in Future 7 

Overruling Regional Director's Decision 8 

Board's Authority When Company Remains 

in Violation of ALRB Orders 9 

Access Rule 10 

Dissention with Majority Opinion on 

Board Votes 12 

Most Difficult Decision 12 

Attempted Influence by Administration 13 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re; 

New Things Learned Since Appointment 

to Board 13 

Board's Advocacy Role for 

Farmworkers 14 


Need for Commitment 15 

Most Difficult Decision 16 

Recommendation of Leg. Analyst that 

ALRB Be Merged with PERB 17 

Impact of Budget Reductions on ALRB ' s 

Operation 18 

Witness in Support: 


Youthful Offender Parole Board 18 

Motion to Confirm 19 

Committee Action 20 

MARY E. Mcdonald, Member 

Agricultural Labor Relations Board 20 

Background and Experience 20 

Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Qualifications for Position 22 

Contact with Workers in Fields 23 

Vote to Not Overrule Decision 

of Regional Director 24 

Board Bound by Case Law 25 

Board's Lack of Action in Warmerdam 

Packing Company Case 26 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Advocacy of Board Members 27 

Commitment to Protect Rights 

of Agricultural Workers 28 

Worst Conditions Seen in Visits 28 

Recommendation of Leg. Analyst to 

Merge ALRB with PERB 30 

Request from CHAIRMAN BURTON to Put Over 

Action on Appointment 30 

JOHN D. SMITH, Member 

Agricultural Labor Relations Board 31 

Background and Experience 31 

Committee Discussion re: CHAIRMAN BURTON'S 

Request to Put Over Action on Appointment 32 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Field Visits 33 

Termination of Proceedings 34 

Certificate of Reporter 35 


SENATOR LEWIS: We'll proceed to Governor's 
appointees appearing today. Let's begin with Grace Daniel. 

MS. DANIEL: Good afternoon. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Welcome to the Committee. 

MS. DANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members 
of the Senate Rules Committee. 

I am Grace Trujillo Daniel. Thank you for giving 
me this opportunity to be with you today to answer any questions 
you may have. 

As you know, I was appointed by Governor Pete 
Wilson to the Agricultural Labor Relations Board last August to 
a term that's going to expire this December, December of this 

When I took my oath of office, I pledged to 
uphold the Agricultural Labor Relations Act and to protect the 
collective bargaining rights of all agricultural employees. 

Because each season California growers rely on 
farmworkers to plant, grow, and harvest crops to feed this 
nation, and because farmworkers rely on growers for their 
economic well being, the Agricultural Labor Relations Act is a 
significant piece of legislation that must be judiciously 
enforced in a timely and sensitive manner. 

For these reasons, my goal as a Board Member has 
been to explore ways to improve and strengthen this process, to 
protect the important symbiotic relationship between the 
farmworkers and the growers. 

To better understand how to reach out to the 
agriculture community and to ensure that the voice of the 
farmworker was heard, I welcomed the opportunity to hold 
hearings throughout the state in November. Not being satisfied 
with the information that was presented to me, I, along with 
other Board Members, voted to expand these hearings so that it 
could include state and federal expert testimony from the 
academicians, demographers, and agencies that regularly interact 
with farmworkers, agencies such as the Employment Development 
Department, Cal-OSHA. 

These agencies that we asked their expert 
testimony included people from the — agriculture economists, 
from the California Rural Institute, all the people that we know 
that study farmworkers and agriculture that that have an 
interest in the State of California. 

In conclusion. Senators, it is important for you 
to know that I strongly believe that work is a noble cause. And 
when we are dealing with people's livelihoods, that we — as we 
do in the Agricultural Labor Relations Board, we must be 
diligent to ensure that every effort is made to protect the 
rights of each individual as prescribed by this Act. 

I, like the farmworker, am an immigrant who came 
to this country and worked in the fields to help my family. I 
personally understand the struggles and the sacrifices that are 
made every day for people who come to this great country seeking 
a better life. 

And because this is a country of law, laws that 
protect and respect each individual, regardless of social and 

economic status, it is my hope that in my service on the 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board this past year has advanced 
the idea that the voice of the farmworker is of utmost 
importance in enforcing the Agricultural Labor Relations Act. 

Thank you very much for your attention. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much, Ms. Daniel. 

We note that the number of complaints that are 
issued, and also the number of elections that are certified, 
they're just a tiny fraction of what they used to be, 
particularly in the mid- '70s, and have been declining rapidly 
ever since. 

What's keeping you busy these days? 

MS. DANIEL: What's keeping us busy is there — 
initially, we, by mandate of this Governor, we were asked to 
review our regulations. 

What kept us busy, for me, at the beginning, 
since I was appointed — which I was appointed in August — we 
started the regulation review process, which included extensive 
hearings throughout the state, going up and down the state. 

Subsequent to that, we had to as a Board, we 
decided to expand these hearings to include these expert 
testimonies that I had asked — that I had told you about. And 
it called for each of us, independently, to go and seek out 
those — those areas of expertise that we knew needed to provide 
us the demographics for decisions that were going to be called 
upon us to make. 

For example, the issue of access was very much in 
our minds in this regulatory review. And I was very busy trying 

to find out as much information as I could from the Census 
Bureau, from the California Rural Institute, from all those 
people that have the facts and the figures about agriculture and 
the farmworker. 

In addition to that, I personally have been 
involved in doing personal visits on my own, as a private 
citizen, to different agriculture communities. I'm trying as 
much as I can, in view of the boundaries that we have as 
quasi-judicial, to not interfere with any case or anything. 

So, on my own, I go to these communities to try 
and learn, really, the housing conditions, because that's 
important to the issue of access. 

Many of the questions that come before us have a 
lot of peripheral areas that we, as Board Members, at least I do 
try to keep in touch. So, I've been involved with that. 

I'm also the coordinator for the Work Plan 
Committee. I don't know if any of you have called the Board in 
the last year or so, but it used to be where you call, and it's 
this black hole. I mean, you just cannot get a live person. 
And I felt that this was terribly wrong. 

If we are a truly customer service group, board, 
we should have our constituents able to reach us without having 
to have 14 telephone calls. 

So, those are the kind of things. They have not 
been cases, you're right, but we have a lot of management issues 
that we would like to explore. 

SENATOR LEWIS: In terms of your personal visits 
to some of the agricultural areas, what's been some of the most 

surprising things that you've seen or learned? 

MS. DANIEL: Well, some of them have been 
pleasant in areas where I have seen that housing conditions for 
some -- some farmworkers are actually pretty nice. 

I think what's surprising is that there's not 
that much activity on farms. You know, unfortunately, this was 
a year that the weather was not quite good. Many of the days 
that I chose to go, it was either rained out, or the crops were 
bad. You know, where crops were not being harvested. 

But I guess — I guess it's the anxiousness in 
talking to farmworkers about having jobs. They want jobs. They 
want to be able to work. They want to be able to be paid, be 
paid a decent wage, those kind of things. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: Ms. Daniel, what is your 
understanding of the events that occurred in the fields of the 
Silliman Ranch last July? 

MS. DANIEL: On the Silliman Ranch? 

SENATOR AYALA: Yes, the Silliman Ranch, the 
problem we had there last month, in July? 

MS. DANIEL: Oh, last week. 

SENATOR AYALA: What is your understanding of 
those problems? 

MS. DANIEL: This is the Coastal Berry, the 
recent election? 

SENATOR AYALA: Yes, ma'am. 

MS. DANIEL: You'd have to be, you know, deaf and 
mute not to hear that there was activity going on. 

And my understanding, and I will tell you that I 
do read the newspaper; I do hear the radio. I know that 
there -- that there was activity taking place. 

But in all honesty, I try not to delve too much 
into the details because I'm concerned that if I get past my 
point of jurisdiction, I will not be able to hear the case if it 
should come up to appeal. 

SENATOR AYALA: Having said that, what is your 
role as member of ALRB in light of all those events that took 

MS. DANIEL: Unfortunately, Senator, our role as 
quasi- judicial has to be in more of a reactive role than a 
proactive role. The way that we are established, through 
established federal and state procedures, we cannot take an 
advocacy or a proactive role and get past the boundaries that 
we' re bound by. 

SENATOR AYALA: You should be proactive to avoid 
some of these pitfalls we're talking about. 

MS. DANIEL: We should be, and that really 
concerns us . I think that it concerns us that we cannot reach 
down and do something when the event has actually happened. 

Unfortunately, because of the way we're 
structured, we are limited, and we're bound by the law that we 
cannot do that if we hope to hear this case, if it ever comes 

SENATOR AYALA: Does the ALRB have appropriate 
funding to carry out your responsibilities as you see them? 

MS. DANIEL: Well, I think there's a lot that we 

can do, that maybe it's not just funding. It's things that we 
can do as a staff, that we can guide our staff to do. Which is, 
in my opinion, maybe take a look again at the election, at our 
election handbook, and see where we can, you know, look at these 
issues that are now coming up, and be proactive in that manner. 
Have more training. 

There's so much needs — there's so much 
misinformation up there as to really what our role is. A 
perfect example is that people think that we as Board Members 
can stop an election. We don't have that prerogative, as much 
as you've heard. Senator, that we do. The reality is, we 
don ' t . 

SENATOR AYALA: The term you used was not to be 
proactive but react. 

MS. DANIEL: Reactive because we have to wait 
until something comes to us in the form of an appeal. And we 
have to wait until the full case is before us before we as, 
judges, can really take up the issue. 

SENATOR AYALA: You take the position of the role 
of a court, so to speak? 

MS. DANIEL: Yes, sir. 

SENATOR AYALA: But there's nothing you can do, 
as a Board, to avoid some of these problems that we face? 

MS. DANIEL: I don't want to say there's nothing 
we can do, because there's always we could do better. 

But at the point where we are today, where we 
were last week, there was very little we could do as a 


SENATOR AYALA: Why did you not utilize the 
statutory authority of the Board to overrule the decision of the 
regional director to proceed with the election? You couldn't 
have done that? 

MS. DANIEL: The only way that we could have 
interfered with the decision of the regional director is if, in 
fact/ the regional director had taken the decision to impound 
the ballots. 

Other than that, we had no authority. We do not 
review. It's not up for review if they proceed with the 
election. It is not before us. 

Only if they try to impound the ballots, then we 
review that action. 

SENATOR AYKLA: Is your total function related to 
elections only, nothing else? 

MS. DANIEL: No, we have — we have other — we 
also oversee the complaints and the remedies that are out there. 
It's not just elections. 

SENATOR AYALA: That's what I was referring to. 
You have other functions, other than just wait until they bring 
it before you so you can act in a judiciary way to resolve those 
issues . 

The Board should be out there trying to avoid 
some of these problems that occur before they occur. 

MS. DANIEL: I agree with you. We should be out 
there. The problem is — 


MS. DANIEL: We can't. Senator. 


MS. DANIEL: Because the way that it's structured 
is that a complaint cannot come before us, and we cannot hear 
it, unless it's a formal complaint that's been through the 
procedure, that has gone through investigation from our General 
Counsel, from our regional person, to our Executive Secretary. 

All those clearings have to go through before we, 
as Board Members, have the authority to look at the complaint. 
It has to be through this formal process. 

It is a process that has been in place, you know, 
that has been in place for federal for 60 years, and 23 years 
for the California Labor Relations Act. And it's an established 
process that has been tried at Supreme Court. And that's 
nothing we can change. It's there. 

SENATOR AYALA: Are you familiar with the 
Warmerdam Packing Company case? 


SENATOR AYALA: What action can the ALRB take 
when a company remains in violation of the ALRB order? They're 
in violation. What is it the Board can do? 

MS. DANIEL: The Board can work closely with the 
General Counsel. You know, this — this authority is delegated 
to the General Counsel and to the regional office to make sure 
that they're in compliance. 

We cannot take an active role and go there and 
make sure that Warmerdam complies. We have to work through our 
General Counsel to make sure that that happens. 

SENATOR AYALA: Does he report to you about these 


cases, the General Counsel? 

MS. DANIEL: We have meetings, as you know, Board 
meetings every Wednesday, and he does give a report on 

SENATOR AYALA: He goes over all these cases? 

MS. DANIEL: Yes, he does. He gives us the 
status of that. 

SENATOR AYALA: Can you give us an update on 
access rule issue? 

MS. DT^IEL: The access rule. This has been a 
very difficult issue, at least for me. 

I think access is a tool that was provided so 
that farmworkers can receive information, farmworkers that are 
out there, that are not readily accessible. 

I think the access rule is something that we need 
to look at very carefully because this is a big state. Although 
there's certain areas in the state where alternative means of 
communication are out there, and things have changed in the last 
23 years, we can access some workers, I'm concerned there's 
certain pockets of the state where we can't reach those 
farmworkers . 

SENATOR AYALA: Can you tell the Committee what 
that access rule is? 

MS. DANIEL: The access rule is for people who 
are nonemployees of a particular farm, they have — 

SENATOR AYALA: Union representatives? 

MS. DANIEL: Union representatives or 
organization groups have the right to ask for access to a 


farmer's place or work location. 

SENATOR AYALA: During working hours? 

MS. DANIEL: Before working hours, during lunch 
time, and after working hours. 

SENATOR AYALA: But not during working hours? 

MS. DANIEL: Not during working hours, sir. It's 
usually an hour before work, an hour — if in fact some of the 
farmworkers have an hour for lunch, which they usually don't, 
it's usually half an hour, and an hour after work. And it's not 
during working hours . 

And they can do this before an election, if they 
file a notice with us to organize, if they file a notice to take 
access. And they can do it all along the process, even towards 
the end of an election. 

So, there's a lot of access there available for 

SENATOR AYALA: Can you foresee any circumstances 
under which you would vote to eliminate the access rule or limit 
its application? 

MS. DANIEL: You know, I have to be very honest 
with you. We had expertise from the federal government and the 
state government who couldn't agree as to whether farmworkers 
were accessible or not in the normal, you know, work situation. 

You don't even have experts agreeing as to where 
farmworkers are because of the nature of — 

SENATOR AYALA: I'm not asking you about experts. 
I'm asking you about you. 

MS. DANIEL: Well, I think what I'm trying to 


tell you is that it's a very difficult thing for me to say today 
that access needs to be eliminated. I can't say that. 

There's a lot of things that are being done. I 
understand there's a study on California migration of farmers 
[sic], as to how they migrate, how their housing patterns are. 
I can't say that. 

SENATOR AYALA: Do you recall any occasion where 
you dissented from the majority opinion of the Board? 

MS. DANIEL: Actually no, because most of our 
decisions have been pretty, pretty clear cut. 

SENATOR AYALA: You don't go along just to go 
along, do you? 

MS. DANIEL: Jesus, I hope not. Senator. I hope 
not, because I am not an attorney, but I do have 16, almost 17 

SENATOR AYALA: What do you mean, you're not an 

MS. DANIEL: Well, I think that ~ that when you 
go along with things, I mean, I have pride in what I'm doing in 
terms of evaluating a case on its merits and its facts. I'm 
not — I'm not the kind of person that's going to go along with 
the crowd if I philosophically don't believe that's where we 
need to be, and the merits of the case don't warrant it. I 
won ' t . 

SENATOR AYALA: What was your most difficult 
decision as a Board Member so far? 

MS. DANIEL: The most difficult decision was 
asking a group of 350 farmworkers who came to us in Watsonville, 


after hearing their testimony, is going back to the Board and 
asking that we expand these hearings, that we -- was telling 
those people that we cannot — I cannot make a decision on what 
I heard, that I needed to expand these hearings to include other 

But these are 350 farmworkers who came to us, who 
testified on a period of two days, telling us about the 
conditions that they were experiencing in the Watsonville area. 

And I needed to have, besides anecdotal 
information, I needed demographics. I needed expert testimony. 

That was very difficult. Senator. 

SENATOR AYALA: My final question, what means, if 
any, has the administration attempted to influence your ALRB 
decisions? Has the administration ever got in touch with you 
and said — 

MS. DANIEL: Never, sir, never. 

SENATOR AYALA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. Senator Ayala. 

Any other questions? Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much for coming 
before us today. 

You've been on this Board now for almost a year. 

MS. DANIEL: Almost a year. 

SENATOR HUGHES : What have you learned that you 
didn't know before? I'm sure that before you went on this 
Board, you had some preconceptions, and were you right or were 
you wrong? And what have you learned? 

MS. DANIEL: I was 180 degrees wrong of what I 


thought this Board had the authority to do. 

My biggest frustration has been that although this 
Board is seen as an advocacy for farmworkers, the reality is 
that we're bound by so much legislation that we cannot really be 
out there as advocates for the farmworkers. That was a big 

SENATOR HUGHES: Well, have you read the Code 
under which you operate? The Code of the Constitution, and 
might I just read something to you, so you may not be wrong to 
begin with. You're probably right. 

It says, Section 1140.2, California Labor Code 
states that, "In respect to the ALRB, it is hereby stated to be 
the policy of the State of California to encourage and protect 
the right of agricultural employees to full freedom of 
association, self organization, and designation of 
representatives of their own choosing to negotiate the terms and 
the conditions of their employment, and to be free from 
interference, restraint and coersions of employers of labor or 
their agents." 

So, that's exactly what you thought. That's 
exactly what the Code said, and it doesn't differ from your 
initial impression. 

MS. DANIEL: Right. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Has someone convinced you 



SENATOR HUGHES: That that is not true? 



SENATOR HUGHES: Who has convinced you otherwise? 

MS. DANIEL: We have the National Labor Relations 

SENATOR HUGHES: Which does not refute this. 

MS. DANIEL: Established procedure and case — 
and case precedence does not enable us to do that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: But it's still not contradictory 
to this policy as stated in the Code. 

SO/ I hope you haven't changed so much that you 
are not as committed — 


SENATOR HUGHES: — as I think that you were 

MS. DANIEL: No, no. Senator. 

I just want to say one thing, that the commitment 
is there. The frustration is that, as Board Members, we don't 
have that ability to go out and be in the field, really touching 
and feeling and sensing what's going on there, because that 
precludes us from our judicial responsibility. 

SENATOR HUGHES: But I think you're a little bit 
confused about what the statute says, and how you have to 
operate each and every day. 

So, I hope when you are in doubt, ever in doubt, 
as to what your role should be, don't be so confused about the 
controversy that you reach every day in functioning, but go back 
and read the Code and what it says. 

And it doesn't say anything about your being a 
neutral agent. The role of the Board, it says, is an active 


agent . 

So, read that, think about it, and see how any of 
the rules and regulations that you've heard before keep you from 
being active. Because from what I heard you say before, you 
visit the workers on site. You know what's happening because 
you go yourself. And I don't want you to stop going to those 
places. I don't want you to stop having your commitment. 

And don't let anybody make your visiting fuzzy in 
terms of what your role and your determination is. 

And I liked what you said when you said you don't 
always go along just to be along. So, don't ever let anybody 
deter you from that commitment that I heard I speak about 

MS. DANIEL: Yes, Senator. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Stay committed. 

MS. DANIEL: Yes, Senator. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What's been your most difficult 
decision thus far as a Board Member? If you think about all the 
decisions that you've had to make, what's been your most 
difficult one? 

MS. DANIEL: Well — 

SENATOR HUGHES: You said it before, and I want 
to see if you remember it again. 

MS. DANIEL: But I want to add to what I 
responded to Senator Ayala, is that the most difficult thing as 
a Board Member is when you have these hearings, and you have 
people tell you the conditions that are out there. And you 
cannot act on those hearings because you need the full case 


before you, because you do need to hear all the different sides 
of those issues and not be able to take immediate action. 

That's very difficult, because it's their 
livelihood they're concerned about. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Right, so you give them time. 
You listen to all sides of the issue. 

In your experience, has the administration or any 
representative from the administration, attempted to influence 
your decision? 

MS. DANIEL: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The Legislative Analyst has 
recommended that the ALRB be eliminated and its functions be 
transferred to the Public Employees Relations Board. 

Do you agree with that conclusion? If not, why 

MS. DANIEL: Well, first of all, I agree that we 
need to streamline certain areas of government. 

I think this particular Act is a very significant 
law. And it's tied to a $25 billion industry, which is the 
State of California. 

Unless we can collapse it — was it PERS, you 
said, another agency? 

SENATOR HUGHES: The Public Employees Relations 

MS. DANIEL: Unless they have the unique 
expertise of the agriculture community, I would never recommend 
that, because what you would have to do is duplicate that 
expertise. And we're fortunate enough at the Agricultural Labor 

Relations Board to have over 50 years of agriculture legal 
experience. You're not going to duplicate that by collapsing it 
into another board that just does labor. 

Agriculture labor is very unique and very 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'm sure that you know this 
better than I do, but over a period of time, the ALRB has 
suffered drastic budget reductions. What's been the impact of 
these reductions in terms of making you a functioning operation? 

MS. DANIEL: I think the impact has been actually 
there in the regional offices, where you do not have up-to-date 
computer systems, where you do not have enough staff, really, to 
handle the complaints as they come through and do the 
investigation. That's really where the problem is. 

Once it trickles up to the Board, we can handle 
that, but I think it's down in the regional offices. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you Senator. 

Is there anyone in the audience wishing to 
testify in behalf of the confirmation? Come forward, please. 

MR. VELLANOWETH: Senator, ladies and gentlemen, 
my name is Robert Vellanoweth. I'm here to testify on behalf 
Grace Daniel, a close associate and friend. 

Having worked with her in several projects, and 
having known here on a personal basis, I can tell you that her 
expertise which she brings on the table today is not only a 
cultural awareness of the farmworkers, but a professional and 
very significant addition to the ALRB. 


I'm just sorry that it's only until December for 
this term, because she would be an excellent member on a 
full-time basis. 

SO/ I'm here to tell you that she would be one of 
the best candidates for this position. 

I work with the Youthful Offender Parole Board, 
and as you know, over 50 percent of our wards are Latinos coming 
into the institution, and most of them come from farmworkers. 
They need individuals such as Grace to help to remedy some of 
those problems that we have there. 

So, I'm totally supportive of her confirmation 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

MR. VELLANOWETH; Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Is there anyone in the audience 
wishing to testify in opposition or to express concerns? 

Not seeing any, do we have a motion? 


SENATOR LEWIS: We have a motion for 
confirmation. Please call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



Ayala Aye. 

Senator Hughes. 


Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

the Floor. 




SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Four to zero. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Four to zero, congratulations. 

MS. DANIEL: Thank you very much. 

SENATOR LEWIS: That'll be the recommendation to 

MS. DANIEL: Thank you very much for your 

[Thereupon the Rules Committee 
acted upon legislative items.] 

SENATOR LEWIS: We'll return to Governor's 
appointees appearing today, next we'll call upon Mary McDonald. 

MS. MCDONALD: Thank you. 

It's an honor to serve as a Member of the 
Agricultural Labor Relations Board. I bring to that Board not 
only a commitment to uphold the statute, but to a devotion to 
the word and the intent of the law as written by this 
legislative body. My respect for this institution and the 
statute which it created are reflected in the fact that for 17 
years, I've devoted my career to writing, interpreting, and 
enforcing the laws of this state. 

After being a Board Member for seven months, I've 
coming to appreciate the critical role that the Agricultural 
Labor Relations Act plays in providing stability in agricultural 
labor relations. 

Immediately upon my appointment, I familiarized 
myself with the statute, the Board regulations, and prior Board 
decisions . 


I traveled to Board regional offices, where I met 
with workers at the job sites and in their homes. I also met 
with the growers and the unions to solicit their views regarding 
the operation of the Act. 

One thing that I discovered were that all parties 
were frustrated by the lack of access that they have to the 
three regional offices serving the state. Obtaining forms. 
Board decision, and general answers to questions could only be 
achieved by contacting the regional offices. 

In an effort to make our agency more accessible, 
I held a meeting with representatives of the United Farm Workers 
and the Western Growers Association to discuss the development 
of a bilingual Internet web site. Under my direction, the Board 
is in the process of creating a site, complete with information 
about the Act as well as forms for filing unfair labor 
practices, election petitions, and case decisions. 

It is my vision that farmworkers ,will be able to 
access this site at public facilities which are available to 
them, such as EDD offices and county offices. 

Since I've been on the Board, there's been no 
lack of complex issues, including the undertaking of the sunset 
review of regulations. The most controversial aspect of those 
reviews was overhauling the access rule. 

We changed the course of that review by voting to 
uphold the — to hold a series of hearings with the state and 
federal experts on farmworker demographics. Based upon that 
record that I had before me, I voted to not change the current 
access rule. 


If I had to make that decision again, my vote 
would be the same. 

This is a good law, benefitting the growers and 
the farmworkers, and a law that will benefit from my unique 
expertise and skills. 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Any questions from Members of the Committee? 
Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: Ms. McDonald, what is it that 
qualifies you for this position? 

MS. MCDONALD: Senator, for 17 years, I've been 
writing, interpreting and enforcing statutes. 

I have a particular expertise of bringing warring 
factions together to try to reach a compromise on issues. I 
have overhauled major programs in this state. I've worked at 
all levels of government, federal and state government. 

And I think these skills will definitely and are 
being utilized right now in making the Act work better. 

SENATOR AYALA: Your experience has been through 
writing about these issues? 

MS. MCDONALD: No, my experience has been 
writing — helping to write laws, statutes, working as 
deputy -- 

SENATOR AYALA: Are you an attorney? 

MS. MCDONALD: No, I'm not an attorney, but as 
deputy leg. secretary to the Governor, I was very much involved. 

SENATOR AYALA: What actual contact have you had 


with people in the fields? 

MS. MCDONALD: Oh, I have — I have spent a great 
deal of time in the fields since I have taken this position. 

SENATOR AYALA: Since you got the position. 

MS. McDONTUjD: Yes, since I've had the position. 

SENATOR AYALA: How about prior to that? 

MS. McDONALD: Prior to that I did also, because 
I handled agricultural issues, I did travel the state and was 
very much aware of agricutural issues, but not necessarily the 
labor issues. That was something that I felt that I needed to 
make sure I filled that gap. 

I*m doing that. I will continue to do that. 
I've organized field trips for other Board Members to go and see 
housing conditions, and I have dined with farmworkers. I have 
done everything I can to make sure that I am very sensitized to 
the plight that the farmworkers are experiencing in this state. 

. SENATOR AYALA: But after your college career, 
your degree was in political science; was it not? 

MS. McDONALD: Yes, and mass communication. 

SENATOR AYALA: How did that prepare you for this 

MS. McDONTUjD: It — that prepared me for the 
position, but more my work experience has prepared me for this 
position, and my ability to not just look at a program and say 
it's stagnant. My ability to look at a program and say, how do 
we make it better. That's really where my expertise lies; 
that's what I'm doing. 

When we created this web site, that's a very 


significant thing for this agency. This agency has really not 
been open to the public. The case decisions are not on 
Internet. There's no disk. Doing any kind of legal research 
has been a very difficult thing. 

This is going to be, for the first time, actually 
opening this agency up for everyone to review. 

SENATOR AYALA: You heard me question the prior 
candidate about the Board itself not utilizing your authority of 
the Board to overrule the decision of the regional director to 
proceed with the election, with which we had a lot of problems 
here about a month ago. 


SENATOR AYALA: Why you did you vote not to 
utilize that authority you had? 

MS. MCDONALD: Senator, I'd like to maybe back up 
a little bit. 

We definitely have — the authority for elections 
rests with the Board. We are constrained by case law and by 
federal statute. That's in the statute under which we operate. 

Roughly, oh, probably — actually, it was my 
first decision that I made when I came on this Board. We had a 
case where there was a de-certification election pending before 
this Board. It was a de-certification of the UFW. That 
election was pending before us. 

The regional director in that case opted to block 
in a decision block that decision, block that de-certification. 
That was appealed by the employer to the Board. We upheld 
that. We upheld the blocking of that election. Why? Because 


we had the authority to do it. 

Now, that was because the regional director -- 
according to our case law, if the regional director opts to 
block an election, that can be appealed up to the Board. 

If they opt to not block or not impound, which 
was the case in Coastal Berry, that cannot be appealed up to the 
Board. That was the situation that we ran into because of case 

SENATOR AYALA: The regional director overruled 
the Board? 

MS. MCDONALD: No, the regional director did 

The regional director, consistent with case law, 
and that's what we operate under, it was case law. 

SENATOR AYALA: You're confusing me with that, 
because I'm reading here that the Board has the statutory 


SENATOR AYALA: Yet you're telling me that case 
law prohibits you from doing it. 

MS. MCDONALD: We are also bound by case law. 
It's the history of the Act, and it gives everyone the guidance 
to know what they operate, when they're coming to this Board, 
how they operate and how our rules will operate. 

We had a situation where, in the Shide case, 
because he opted to block, and that was appealed to us, our 
first decision we said yes, we would block that 
de-certification. That election did not go forward, and UFW was 


not de-certified in that particular case. 

SENATOR AYALA: So, you have the authority, but 
you don't? 

MS. MCDONALD: But in the case — it's odd, but 
the way the case law works, if the regional director opts to not 
block or not impound -- 

SENATOR AYALA: So he preempts the Board? 

MS. MCDONALD: He is operating — unless it gets 
appealed up to us, there's nothing for us to review. It has to 
come before us. 

Because he did not opt to do that in this case, 
there was nothing before us. 

We also ran into a situation with that particular 
case of standing, and that was really the overriding issue on 
that particular case, was because the UFW did not intervene in 
that case, they did not have standing according to federal case 
law and according to state case law. 

SENATOR AYALA: You heard me question the other 
candidate about the Warmerdam Packing Company case. 

Why didn't the ALRB take action when the company 
remains in violation of the ALRB's orders? I don't understand 

MS. MCDONALD: That case — and after, there were 
a group of UFW employees, employees of Warmerdam, that came to 
the Board and I met with them. 

The General Counsel, and I know you appreciate 
that we have this kind of a curtain between the General Counsel 
and the Board, the General Counsel is overseeing the 


implementation of that. 

I met with the employees, and then afterwards, 
met with the General Counsel to say, you know, they make a very 
strong case. And he briefed me on the fact that they are moving 
forward with compliance, and they're waiting for — there were 
documents that were pending from both sides, from the employer 
as well as the UFW. So, he committed to moving forward. 

SENATOR AYALA: I have no other questions, 
Mr. Chairman. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Senator Hughes, do you have any 

SENATOR HUGHES: What I wanted to ask you is 
basically the same question that I asked the previous Board 
Member. I'm sure that you heard me read the statute that 
authorizes you to function. 

Who should you be an advocate for, as I read that 
statute? Do you remember? 

MS. MCDONALD: Absolutely. That was, as I said, 
when I came on, the first thing I always do when I do something 
is, I sit down and read the statutes, I read the case law. 

We're wearing really two hats in my capacity. 
We're wearing the quasi- judicial, and we're also wearing the 
administrative hat. 

When we create — when we're in the process of 
creating this web site, I am going to be an advocate for making 
sure that the information is out there, that people are provided 
with that. And I will do everything in my capacity to make 
sure. I think it would be criminal to do no less. That's what 


I 'm doing. 

So, I am an advocate to make sure that the 
information is out there. 

I look forward to also -- I have little plans 
that I've got to help make things better. One of them would be 
also to formulate MOUs with other agencies that serve the 
farmworker community/ so that when they're out giving 
information out, whether it's Housing or EDD, or OSHA, that we 
are a part of that information dissemination. It's there. 

So yes, I'm proactive. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Your commitment is to see that 
the information is out there, but are you committed to protect 
the rights of the agricultural workers? 

MS. MCDONALD: Absolutely. They have to know 
that they have those rights. That's critical. They need to 
know that they have those rights, and then, putting my 
quasi-judicial hat, absolutely, absolutely. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Do you make the kinds of visits 
that Ms. Daniel makes? Do you go around on sites and visit? 

MS. MCDONALD: I have. I have. I've seen some 
of the most appalling living conditions. I've been in homes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What's the worst conditions that 
you saw? 

MS. MCDONALD: The worst condition that I saw was 
in Salinas. And it was a private facility; it was not a 
government -run facility. Those were actually decent by 
comparison. And they were adjoining rooms; I'm not going to 
call them houses. They were about 200 square feet. Seven 


people living in this. Dirt all around the place. Pretty -- it 
was some of the worst poverty that I've seen, and I've certainly 
seen poverty. 

But these people were wonderful, gracious people, 
inviting me into their home, and hard working. And as they said 
to me, all they want is to make sure that their children have a 
better life than they've had. 

SENATOR HUGHES: How did you leave there feeling? 
What did you want to do if you had the power to do it? 

MS. MCDONALD: I'm doing it. I'm doing it. 

I'm empowering those people to know that they 
have a vehicle out there through labor relations, through this 
web site. 

We did something — we did something else. We're 
trying to find — we have a whole series of computers that are 
old computers in our agency, 326s. And you give them to General 
Services, and I don't know what General Services does, but 
General Services has a policy where, if an entity is on their 
list, they will give those computers to the nonprofit entity. 

So, I came back and said great. Let's get some 
of these computers out there. So, we're working to get them 
into — there's a transitional program where farmworkers are 
learning to not be farmworkers any more, but maybe they'd be 
janitors, or to work in offices. 

And we're getting our computers to those folks so 
that — those are the kind of things that we can do, and I'm 
doing them. 

But most of all, the most important thing I'm 


doing in terms of the statute is going to be the web site. 
That's invaluable, invaluable. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The Leg. Analyst, as I said to 
Ms. Daniel, has recommended that the agency be eliminated and 
functions transferred to the Public Employees Relations Board. 

What do you think about that? 

MS. MCDONALD: I think if they can do it more 
efficiently, more effectively than we can do it, God bless them. 
But I don't think they can, because we do something different 
than they do. 

We — at PERB, they do not actually represent the 
petitioner who comes in with a complaint. We do. Our folks are 
out there. They become the litigators for those individuals. 
If a farmworker comes in, they become the litigator. 

PERB does not have that expertise. They do not 
have the expertise in labor relations. That rests in our 
agency. And I'm proud of the people who work in that agency. 
They're very committed individuals. 


SENATOR LEWIS: Is there anyone in the audience 
who wishes to testify in behalf of the appointee at this point 
in time? Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to express 
opposition or concerns. 

SENATOR AYALA: Mr. Chairman, at the request of 
the Chairman, not a motion but a request that this be put over 
until he's present to discuss it. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Ms. McDonald, I think you're a 
very conscientious member. I look forward to voting for you in 


the future, but it'll have to the to be future. 

We have a request from one of our Members to 
postpone the vote. 

MS. MCDONALD: I was aware of that, thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you for being with us 

MS. MCDONALD: Okay, thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Mr. John Smith. 

MR. SMITH: Good afternoon. Senators. 

I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you 
today. This is my fifth time. 

Prior to coming to the Board, I was the Director 
of the Office of Administrative Law. And while the subject 
matter was certainly different over there, the process is 
basically the same. In both jobs, I make my decisions. At OAL, 
I decided which regulations should become law based upon the 
record, and that's the same process I have here at the ALRB. 

In fulfilling my judicial roll at the Board, I am 
and always will be neutral. I will fairly apply the law to the 
facts without regard to the parties involved. 

Having said that, I do recognize that this Act 
would not be here but for the farmworkers, and that's where my 
personal sentiments lie. 

Perhaps the most important issue that has come 
before the Board since I arrived is whether the access 
regulation should be changed or eliminated. 

Let me state categorically that for most 
farmworkers, the ability to speak to them personally is the only 


way to reach them. And from the information we received as a 
result of numerous hearings which you've heard about, and the 
submission of voluminous documents, I did not vote to change the 
access regulation and I would not again. 

I'm sure you're aware, the life of many 
farmworkers in California has not changed much over the years. 
Workers still come and go from Mexico, and a good many still 
live in poverty, and some work under unacceptable conditions. 

While the Board does not have jurisdiction to 
address all of their problems, I pledge to this Committee that I 
will do everything in my power to uphold the rights of the 

Thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Smith. 

Questions, Members of the Committee? Senator 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Are we going to put it over? 

SENATOR LEWIS: This will be treated just like 
the previous one, is my understanding. 

Is that correct, Senator Ayala? Does Senator 
Burton have the same request on this nominee as well? 

SENATOR AYALA: I think so. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I was going to make another 
comment, but if you do it for one, you do it for the other. 

SENATOR AYALA: He wants to be here, is my 
understanding . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: He's going to be back. 

SENATOR AYALA: No motion, just a request. 


MR. SMITH: That's my understanding. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'm just curious, Mr. Smith. 
Did you make those fields visits — 

MR. SMITH: Yes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: — like the other two ladies? 

MR. SMITH: I did. I met with the unions, the 
growers, as many farmworkers as I could find, and I'm going to 
continue that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Did you go to the place that 
your colleague went to? 

MR. SMITH: No, I didn't. 

SENATOR HUGHES: You better find out where she 
went and go there, too, because she sure came back with quite an 

MR. SMITH: I intend to. I went some place 
similar, and it was eye-opening. 

I grew up in the Central Valley. I don't know 
how you could grow up here and not have a concern about 
farmworkers. I've seen since I was a little boy how they 

SENATOR HUGHES: So, it wouldn't have been 
shocking to you, because you knew that's what existed, or did 
you know? 

MR. SMITH: I think I knew. Senator, but when 
you're there, face-to-face, it's a little different. It's an 

I wish this Board could do a lot more. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you. I would suggest that 


you go there, too, someday. And someday I hope to see it. 

I've seen pictures of it that have made me 


MR. SMITH: I intend to. 


SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you. 

Are there other questions from Members of The 


Anyone in the audience wishing to testify on 
behalf of the appointee? Anyone wishing to testify in 
opposition or express concerns? Apparently not. 

Mr. Smith, we've been worn down. Good luck to 


MR. SMITH: Thank you. Senator. 
[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 2:40 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 



1, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 
//^ day ot y}(^/j3^-^^JuZ, 1998. 

Shorthaira Reporter 

361 -R 

Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.50 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

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Please include Stock Number 361-R when ordering. 





NOV - 9 1998 



ROOM 113 


3:06 P.M. 


Reported by 




ROOM 113 


3:06 P.M. 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 










GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 





State Board of Education 

WILSON RILES, Former State Superintendent 

Workers' Compensation Appeals Board 


FRANK RUSSO, President 

California Applicants Attorneys Association 


California Labor Federation 



Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 


State Board of Education 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Results of STAR Program 2 

Devastating Scores 2 

Better Preparation of Teachers 3 

State Intervention in Districts with 

Problems 4 

Coalition between Universities and 

Teachers 5 

Opinion of National Teacher 

Certification Exams 6 

Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Record of Charter Schools in 

California 8 

Oversight Failures 9 

Public Funding for Private 

School Vouchers 9 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Old versus New Methods of 

Teaching 11 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Need for Board and State Superintendent 

to Work Together 12 

Statements by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Appointed Board and Elected 

State Superintendent 13 


Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Board ' s Involvement in Proposition 8 14 

School Site Councils 14 

Witness in Support: 

WILSON RILES, Former State Superintendent 15 

Motion to Confirm 17 

Committee Action 17 

DOUGLAS M. MOORE, Commissioner 

Workers • Compensation Appeals Board 18 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 19 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Downsizing of Defense Budget 22 

Ways to Improve Lengthy Process of 

Workers Comp Program 23 

Number of Physicians Involved 24 

Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Percentage of Stress Claims 25 

Labor's Complaint of Ruling in Favor 

of Insurer-Employer 26 

Witnesses in Opposition; 

FRANK RUSSO, President 

California Applicants Attorneys Association 27 


California Labor Federation 28 

Comments and Questions by SENATOR AYALA re: 

Lame-duck Gubernatorial Appointments 28 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Opposition of Labor to Lame-duck 

Appointments by Governor Jerry Brown 30 

Motion to Confirm 30 

Committee Action 30 

Termination of Proceedings 30 

Certificate of Reporter 31 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Marion Joseph, Member, State 
Board of Education. 

MS. JOSEPH: Senators, thank you very much. 

I will make this brief, since I know you have 
many critical things to deal with. 

I have been involved in trying to help to improve 
public education for about 35 years in many different roles. 
But particularly in the last five or six years, I have been 
enormously concerned with the misdirection California took on 
teaching children to read, or not teaching children to read, and 
have been working very hard to turn that around. 

The Legislature, the Governor, have been very 
much part of that effort, starting with the ABC bills, and then 
the Reading Initiative, and then the training bills of 1086. 
And we at the State Board are trying hard to implement those to 
the very best, as well as adopting the standards. We have 
already adopted reading and language arts standards, and 
mathematic standards, and now we're working on the comprehensive 
testing bill according to all of your laws. 

And I think there is some hope. And I would 
appreciate the opportunity to continue this effort, at least for 
some period of time. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much for your 
many years of commitment and your caring about education and 
students of this state. 

I'd like to ask you, how do you feel about the 
results of our STAR program released last week in grades two 
through eleven? 

MS. JOSEPH: I'm afraid that they do show a 
picture which definitely needs changing. The effects of the new 
laws have not really kicked in yet. We need to do better. 

We are not giving our teachers the kind of 
pre-service training they need yet, and I think those scores are 
not satisfactory, and we can't afford to let it stand there. 

So, the commitment has to be from the Board, the 
Superintendent, as well as the Legislature to keep on moving in 
the right direction, but I think we are moving in that course. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The scores are devastating, as 
far as I'm concerned. 

What do you think of the results of these scores? 
What kind of message it sends to us as policy makers? Where do 
we go from here? Guide us; help us. What do we have to do 
yesterday, and what do we have to do tomorrow and today? 

MS. JOSEPH: I think there are three parts to 

You did pass the bills to change. You have 
passed the bills to change, to recertify all the teacher 
education programs, and that process is going on now. 

You also passed a bill to establish the reading 
training — there's going to be what they call a RICA test. 
Every new graduating teacher will have to take a test in whether 
they can teach the fundamentals of reading. I'm not at all 
convinced that the results of that are going — I mean, I think 

there are a lot of teachers who will not come out prepared, but j 

that has to push the teacher education. j 

I've not met, in all these years, teachers who I 

did not want to do a good job, but they are poorly prepared 

right now, and I think we all admit that. 

The second part was — 

SENATOR HUGHES: And who's going to correct 
that? Where? 

MS. JOSEPH: I think that in recent — having 
heard the new Chancellor Reid, he certainly has the commitment. 

I think if many teachers, new teachers, fail 
RICA, there's a problem. 

I think the Legislature has put money into 
alternative programs. I think there has to be pressure on the 
teacher education system to do a better job. I mean, we have to 
be perfectly straight forward about that. 

In addition, there is now money, the teachers 
absolutely have to have material that gives them what they need 
to teach reading, writing and spelling, as well as math. So, 
now there's a good chunk of additional money that — where the 
State Board will adopt criteria based on the new standards. 
Those are tough standards. That material should, in fact, give 
the teachers more of what they need to teach reading. 

You can't -- teachers cannot be composers and 
conductors. They can't make it all up. There's no reason for 
that. They need to be given solid materials. That will make a 

And then, having the testing program will show 

us. We have been flying blind without a testing program for too 

The combination of those three things, I think, 
but we need to keep moving it. 

I think the Legislature has done, I think, 
everything they can, but now the issue is moving that. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What about the whole area of 
intervention? I mean, the state intervening, as we have done in 
Compton? They're coming along slowly, but it's still slowly. 

What do we do when we intervene? It's like going 
into a critical care unit when the people are already on life 
support, what do you do to make sure that they don't get to that 
point? If you have any indicators by the STAR tests, would you 
recommend intervention prior to total collapse in the system? 

What do you feel about the social promotion 
business? Schools want to look good, so they don't want to keep 
back a lot of kids, but if you push them ahead, do you make the 
situation better or worse? 

MS. JOSEPH: Let's see, you've presented the crux 
of the issue. 

SENATOR HUGHES: That is right. 

MS. JOSEPH: I wish I could say that I thought 
state take-overs were an answer. I just think we have a hard 
enough time doing what the state needs to do. I don't think 
that's an answer. 

I think that there needs to be absolute 
recognition of why these schools — you know, there's a lot of 
talk about accountability. Why are these schools in the 

bottom? Because of their achievement levels in reading and 
math. I mean, that is why they're there. Those are the scores 
that make them come out at the bottom. 

So, we need to keep directing them very 
specifically at reading programs and at math programs for which 
there is evidence that they work. Not some idea, like maybe 
this is a good idea. 

We've been on the wrong track for a long time. 
Senator, and we have got to get programs in schools that we know 
work, that there is real evidence. 

SENATOR HUGHES: How do we tighten the coalitions 
between the universities that do the teacher training and the 
schools out there that need better teachers? 

This morning on radio, I heard about another 
state where all of these college graduates who are going to 
teach in schools have such poor scores in these basic subject 
matters. I wonder how they even got into college to begin with, 
and now they're coming out and applying for credentials. 

So, it's not just our state. This is a 
nationwide problem. 

But how do we utilize the brains, and the 
integrity, the training, and the research of the universities — 
I don't care whether they're public, private, or semi-private — 
to really get together out there in the community and do a job? 

MS. JOSEPH: The evidence, the research, on how 
children learn to read is overwhelming now and convergent. And 
we know exactly how to do it, and the way — with greater 
certainty than we have ever known. 

We simply have to get the kind of programs into 
the schools for which there is absolute evidence. Education as 
an institution does not operate, or has not operated, on the 
basis of evidence. It's like, here's a good idea; why don't we 
try this; this sounds good. I am afraid that we're not very 
good consumers. We don't ask for evidence, and we need to do 
that. It's very, very serious. We've made many serious 
mistakes . 

I wish I had an answer to teacher education. I 
read clippings from the United States and from other countries. 
And the teacher education problem is across the country, as you 
say, and in many countries. 

I wish I had an answer to it. I think that 
focusing on student results, on the teachers being able to pass 
the RICA test, that those are going to be kinds of pressures the 
system has to have. Let's see what happens as a result of 

I think that we have had no testing, so you don't 
know. You can say, well, our kids are doing wonderfully, but 
there's been no evidence. Now we have evidence. Now we see 
what happens for next year. 

SENATOR HUGHES: What do you think about the 
National Teacher Certification Exams? You know, we have our own 
state stuff that we do, but what about that? 

And I know there are a group of teachers who are 
right now training to take that. They have that going on in Los 
Angeles. Not that Los Angeles is a model, but I know that there 
are teachers who go to these workshops on weekends and evenings. 


to try to take the National Teacher Examination. 

So, that would mean that they would be quality 
teachers who could teach anywhere in the nation, but they're not 
enough of them, and they are giving some incentives, some 
financial incentives in Los Angeles, for teachers to take this 

What is your evaluation of that? 

MS. JOSEPH: I think that's probably a good 
idea. I'm not totally familiar. I know there is such an exam. 
I know we support that idea. 

But frankly, I think that California's salvation 
is here. That Senator Hughes, eloquent as you are, I think a 
meeting with the Chancellor, who I think is committed, I think 
he's going to need all the help and muscle you can give him. 

We need — our teachers deserve better than 
they're getting. And I think that the Legislature can help give 
the Chancellor the kind of support and muscle he needs to carry 
out what I know he intends to do. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I've met with the Chancellor. 
I'm extremely impressed. 

MS. JOSEPH: Yes, I am, too. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Extremely impressed with his 

I hope that we, as a Legislature, don't block 
him, but help him to achieve his goal. He's new to the state. 
He comes with a lots of new, fresh ideas. 

We may not be his problem as much as his 
professors, and you know, you've been there. 


MS. JOSEPH: Absolutely. 

SENATOR HUGHES: People don't want to change and 
try new things, but maybe it'll necessitate our passing some 
legislation that says we must try new things because the old 
things are not working. 

MS. JOSEPH: I certainly think that you're 
absolutely right, we all need to support. He came and met with 
the Board/ and he was right where we had hoped. He said, the 
answer is reading, writing, algebra, geometry, that's it; that's 
what we have to get our children at. 

And we will work with him closely, and I know you 

And I think we're on the right course, but it's 
going to take a lot to get certain people, concern groups who 
are still not where we are, to recognize that we have a very 
significant problem. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: Ms. Joseph, what have you learned 
as a State Board Member about the experience of charter schools 
in California, their success and their failure? What is their 
record? Are you aware of that? 

MS. JOSEPH: My understanding is, it's very 
mixed. Senator. And I hope that with the new bill, AB 544, that 
we can help. It gives us some authority as a State Board to 
develop regulations to try to help guide it. 

But, it's very mixed. 

SENATOR AYALA: Tell me more about the mixed 
results, like for instance? 

MS. JOSEPH: I think there are problems with 
some of them in terms -- there have been problems with oversight 
in some cases. There's some that have had to close. 

SENATOR AYALA: Is that the failure of the local 
school boards for the oversight? 

MS. JOSEPH: It seems to me the local school 
boards have a responsibility here. I'm not sure that in every 
case it's the local board's responsibility that it's a failure, 
but I do think that there needs to be local school board 
oversight. Otherwise/ we can be just without anything. 

And I hope that in the regs that we develop, the 
regulations that Board develops, that we will try to — 

SENATOR AYALA: There's mixed results as it 
pertains to charter schools. 

I want to ask you now, do you support public 
funding for these private school vouchers? 

MS. JOSEPH: For private vouchers, no. Senator. 

SENATOR AYALA: You don't support public money 
for that? 

MS. JOSEPH: For vouchers, no. 

SENATOR AYALA: Well, a voucher for K through 12. 

MS. JOSEPH: For charters? 

SENATOR AYALA: The charters, they're under the 
school boards, and they operate under their guidance and 
oversight. The problem is, they haven't had the oversight they 
should have had. 

MS. JOSEPH: No, they haven't. 

SENATOR AYALA: They're responsible for that. 


But as opposed to a private school of any type 
being funded by public funds, how do you feel about that? 

MS. JOSEPH: My personal view, if you're talking 
about private -- public funds in the form of vouchers — 

SENATOR AYALA: I'm talking about public money 
being used for private schools. 

MS. JOSEPH: And you're using that in the voucher 
-- in the charter issue? 

I'm assuming that I think the charters should be 
operating under some public board oversight. I'm not sure that 
in all cases that happens. 

SENATOR AYALA: You haven't answered my question. 

MS. JOSEPH: I don't support public money for 
private schools. 

SENATOR AYALA: You oppose public money for 
private schools? 

MS. JOSEPH: But if it's a charter school, and 
the charter schools are operating under public charter, then 
that is a different story. 

SENATOR AYALA: A charter school is almost a 
public school, operating under the Board of Education in the 

MS. JOSEPH: And I have to be on for that. 

SENATOR AYALA: My question is, and I'll repeat 
it, public funds for private schools? 


SENATOR AYALA: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 



SENATOR KNIGHT: I heard a comment earlier that 
indicated that we need to try some new methods, that the old 
methods aren't working in our public educational system. 

And I want to find out what methods we're talking 
about/ because I was under the impression that all of the new 
methods that we've tried — the new math, the new teaching of 
reading, and the self-esteem, don't make anybody feel bad so 
don't tell them they flunked, or don't tell them they got the 
wrong answer — I thought all of those were some of the 
problems, and those were the new methods. 

I want to know what new methods we're talking 

MS. JOSEPH: You're absolutely right. Senator, 
we're not talking about that. We're not talking about — those 
are the new, unproven methods, and they've proven to be 
disastrous for our children. 

But I assume that the Senator was talking about 
approaches to teacher education, because if you're talking about 
what has happened until now, those have been a problem. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: We seem to be going in that same 
direction with teacher education, because we're going to pay 
them $10,000 now to take an exam to find out if they know what 
they're talking about, and I think that's pretty ludicrous. 

I thought I saw that some place; didn't I? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's insistence. 

MS. JOSEPH: I think that in terms of the old 
methods, we know how to do them better in terms of teaching 
children directly, systematically, how to spell, penmanship. 



grammar. We need to do all of that, but I do think we know how 
to do that better for all children than we used to. 

But if you say, those are the old methods, they 
are, the tried and true methods. We can do them better than we 
did them before, and certainly we have to do not what we have 
done the last ten years. 

It's a combination new and old, in essence. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I've got a couple questions. 

One is, and you and I were around during the 
friction between Max Rafferty and the State Board under Tom 

Now it seems that Superintendent Eastin is there, 
and seems to be a lot of friction there. 

And I don't think that's necessarily good for 
public education. I think primarily I don't think it's as 
philosophically ingrained as it was with Max and the State Board 

How can a Superintendent and the State Board 
either try to work together, at least not get into fights over 
stuff that's not necessarily relevant because they can't do 
anything about it? 

How can we, assiiming Delaine gets re-elected, 
which I think she probably will, how can we make sure that the 
State Board and the Superintendent are, if not in lock-step, at 
least are trying to work together on as many matters as they can 
of mutual concern? 

MS. JOSEPH: I think that we don't have very many 
differences in terms of issues. And I think we have to keep 



focused on the issues. 

And sometimes there are disagreements about — 
there are not that many disagreements. Sometimes the press 
likes to make more of them than there are. 

I think we have to just work together, focused on 
the issues. I don't think we're very far apart most of the 

And I suppose, having come from twelve years as a 
staff person in the Department, I think we just have to keep 
communicating and pledging to work together. There's just no 
other way. We can't accomplish this, the Board, without the 
Superintendent, or the Superintendent without the Board. 

I don't think that it's as tough as it sometimes 
sounds; I really don't. I think we can do it. I think we do do 
it most of the time. 

SENATOR AYALA: Mr. Chairman, may I add on to 

I don't envision the time when it'll settle, 
because as long as you have a Superintendent that is elected 
statewide by the people of California, then you have a Board 
that is appointed by a governor, the members must represent that 
philosophy or they don't get appointed, there's a conflict from 
here on out. 

Don't tell me no, because he wouldn't appoint you 
if you didn't agree with what he was doing, this Governor or any 
other Governor, for that matter. As long as we have appointed 
officials bucking an elected official, that's exactly what that 


At the local level, we elect board members, and 
the board members select their superintendent. They have to get 
along with him or they fire him. 

As long as the current policy exists, we've 
always got conflict at that level. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Question that I've got. 

Do you think the Board is going to get involved 
or not get involved in Prop. 8, or do you have any idea? Do you 
think it's good idea that they get involved, or a bad idea? 

MS. JOSEPH: They're not going to get involved as 
far as I know. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: The Chair is involved, but 
that's just her deal. 

The thing, there's a lot of stuff in that — 

MS. JOSEPH: The Board hasn't met on it. My 
assumption is that — the Board hasn't taken it up. 

My assumption so far is, hands off. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Well, if you're not going to do 
that, but just for my own benefit, my concern, biggest concern 
on that one, it's the one that basically will give parents 
councils almost control of a school. I don't know how they will 
necessarily be elected, but the school site councils, expanding 
authority over education, curricula, expenditures, which means 
the money, and I'm not exactly sure, do you know how school site 
councils are established? 

Is that like, who has the biggest turnout, like 
the old poverty elections, or what? 

MS. JOSEPH: Senator, it just refers back — that 


takes me back to Senator Ayala for a minute. 

I'm a Democrat, and have always been and will 
always be. 

SENATOR AYALA: I won't hold it against you. 

MS. JOSEPH: Senator, the Governor did not ask me 
to agree with everything. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How about answering my question? 

MS. JOSEPH: The question is that I agree with 
you that that is a problem. I think that's a problem. We 
created site councils. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How are they selected. 

MS. JOSEPH: They're selected by groups coming 
together for election night at school. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Like a caucus, Iowa Caucus? 

MS. JOSEPH: Like a caucus, uh-huh. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: That can be kind of dangerous 
one way or another, seriously. And they would have when it says 
authority over curriculum and expenditures, I mean, like they 
could say what a school site could spend? 

MS. JOSEPH: That's a problem. That is a 
problem. I agree. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support? Are you 
visiting, Wilson, or are you going to testify. 

MR. RILES: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Welcome, Mr. Riles. 

MR. RILES: It's a pleasure to be here. 

I'll mention this. I was elected your State 
Superintendent in 1970, and took office in 1971, served three 


terms. And then left office after Honig was elected in 1983. 

During that period, I can see many of you were in 
the seventh or eighth grade during that period. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You got the wrong committee. 
[Laughter. ] 

MR. RILES: I think it was generally thought that 
Max Rafferty, who was Superintendent at that time, could not be 
defeated. And I remember a member of the State Board of 
Education came to me, I was working in the Department of 
Education, and told me I should run for office. And I thought 
he was out of his mind. I had many things in my dreams, and so 
on, but being a statewide elected official was not one of them. 

But he convinced me to run, and I ran and was 

Having worked in the Department, having worked in 
school districts, been a teacher, principal, and all of that, I 
understood how the system worked. And the moment I was elected, 
I, of course, was dedicated to do a good job for all the 
children in this state, regardless of their religion, or race, 
or socio-economic status. 

One of people that supported me in the election 
and worked hard was Marion Joseph. And her dedication and 
commitment impressed me. And I brought her on the staff, asked 
her to come on my staff and serve as one of my administrative 
assistants . 

And it was a fine move on my part because she did 
her job well. She was thoroughly committed to the one thing 
that I was interested in, how can you help the children of the 


state, of all people, learn. 

And so, I came to support her appointment. I 
think she will be a credit to the state, but most important, 
will support those ideas that she is committed to, and that is 
to help children learn. 

And that's it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, Mr. Riles. 

Any other witnesses in support? Witnesses in 


the roll. 


SENATOR HUGHES: I'd like to move it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Hughes. Call 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. Senator Hughes. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Leave the roll open for Senator 

Congratulations . 

MS. JOSEPH: Thank you. 

MR. RILES: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's good to see you. 

Next item on the agenda is Mr. Douglas Moore. 

MR. MOORE: Mr. Chairman, Senators, Senator Kopp 
was on his way down, but I'll go ahead and start anyway. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We can wait for him, if you 
want, and we'll deal with some other stuff. 

[Thereupon the Rules Committee 
acted upon legislative items.] 


SENATOR KOPP: Mr. Chairman and Members, good 
afternoon to you. 

I am here this afternoon for the pleasure of 
presenting the honorable Douglas Moore to you and recommending 
his recommended consent and approval by the full State Senate 
for the position of Chief Judge, Workers Compensation Appeals 

Now, the reason that I do so is because I know 
Judge Moore personally. I've known him for twelve to fifteen 
years . I knew him at the time he was a partner in the firm of 
Sedgwick, Detert, and I knew Gunther Detert, Moran. 

And I've litigated against him, and he is a 
capable adversary, 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is that Bob Moran? 

SENATOR KOPP: Not Bobby, no, hardly. It was Ed 
Moran, as a matter of fact, who would have been entitled, if he 
were still living, to a disability placard for his automobile. 
As a matter of fact, he practiced with one leg. Senator Knight. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do did Elmer Delaney. 

SENATOR KOPP: Like Elmer Delaney. 

And I also practiced in front of him when he was 


a Judge of the Superior Court of the State of California in and 
for the City and County of San Francisco. 

And he is a first-rate lawyer with a first-rate 
knowledge of the law. He was a first-rate advocate, but never 
to the point of vituperation or acrimony. Always practiced 
civil law in a civil fashion. 

And as a judge, he was able to convey to 
litigants and their lawyers who appeared before him that sense 
of knowledge of the judicial process, knowledge of the decision 
making process, and knowledge of the elements of specific 
actions that were presented to him. 

He, in the lexicon of the lamented State Bar of 
California and its recommendations, would be characterized as 
extremely well qualified; not qualified, not well qualified, 
extremely well qualified. And indeed he is. 

And as somebody who practiced mostly representing 
plaintiffs against insurance companies and insurance company 
lawyers, I can tell you that he is fair. And he is a person of ' 
sensitivity in terms of the factual issues and damages and 
damage issues that are at stake in Workers Compensation 

So, I commend him, Mr. Chairman and Members of 
the Committee, for your favorable recommendation to the full 
State Senate. 


MR. MOORE: Mr. Chairman, Senators, as far as my 
background is concerned, I was born and raised in San 
Francisco. After graduation from Cal Berkeley, spent two years 


on active duty in the United States Navy as a supply officer 
aboard a destroyer deployed to the Far East. 

I returned to Hastings College of the Law, and 
after graduation, joined what was then a 15-person law firm, a 
litigation law firm in San Francisco where I remained actively 
engaged in trial practice for 29 years, with a litigation 
practice ranging from products liability and professional 
negligence to insurance coverage matters. 

Over the years, I tried lawsuits and trials in 32 
of our 58 counties in California, from the smallest county, such 
Alpine, where I tried a construction bond case, to Modoc County, 
where I tried a six-week irrigation design case, and then on to 
the large metropolitan urban areas, where Mr. Kopp and I had a 
case or two in Los Angeles and again in San Francisco. 

You don't win them all, so in addition to my 
trial practice, I had an active appellate practice in the state 
and federal courts, and at least one of my cases reached the 
United States Supreme Court. 

In the fall of 1995, I accepted an appointment as 
a Superior Court Judge in San Francisco, where I was assigned to 
the civil jury trial calendar, which involved a wide range of 
cases, from complex commercial litigation transactions, various 
types of person injury malpractice cases, employment law, and 
even a will contest. 

This service as a Superior Court Judge provided a 
new perspective on litigation and the resolution of contested 
legal and factual matters. 

In addition to my career as a trial lawyer, and 


my tenure on the Superior Court, which was cut short by a 
contested election, I served for 36 years in the United States 
Naval Reserve, retiring last year as a Two Star Rear Admiral. 

My administrative and personnel handling skills 
were honed when I was involved over a 15-year period with the 
development of the United States Naval Reserve Cargo Handling 
Capabilities, which was a mission area assigned to the reserve 

During Desert Storm, I had in excess of 1500 
Naval Reservists on active duty in the Persian Gulf, which I 
managed from my law office with numerous trips to Washington, 
D.C. to discuss matters with my active duty counterparts. 

Throughout my legal career, I was frequently 
confronted and became familiar with Workers Compensation 
concepts and legal principles. In my nine months as 
Commissioner of the Workers Compensation Appeals Board, I have 
participated as of yesterday in 2,048 decisions involving every 
conceivable issue that comes before the Board. 

I would note in passing, Mr. Chairman, that as 
far as the written opposition that's in the file, I see no 
written opposition suggesting that any of my cases and decisions 
were — showed any evidence of bias or prejudice or were decided 
on improper legal grounds. 

Since being appointed Chairman of the Board in 
April, I have personally authored two significant panel 
decisions addressing the issue of good faith personnel actions 
within the context of psychiatric claims. I have visited 21 of 
our 25 local offices, and have met with 148 of 175 judges to 


develop an appreciation for emerging and troubling legal issues. 

I have personally directed an effort to reduce 
the backlog of appeals pending before the Board, and have 
implemented a web page on which practitioners can research the 
California Labor Code and the California Code of Regulations, 
and the Board can publish its en banc and significant panel 
decisions and communicate with the workers compensation 

I believe my background, experience, and interest 
fully qualify me to serve as a Commissioner of the Workers 
Compensation Appeals Board. 

I would welcome the opportunity to continue to 
serve in that capacity, and I'm happy to answer any questions or 
respond to any areas of concern. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, Admiral, and I would like a 
yes or no. 

Do you think it's time that we begin to downsize 
the defense budget? 

MR. MOORE: That came out of left field. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, it did. Just a yes or no. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Quit badgering the witness. 
[Laughter. ] 

MR. MOORE: It is time, and I — last week, we 
closed the last military base in the San Francisco Bay Area. 

I think what the public has to learn is that the 
Cold War is over. We have much more capable equipment and 


people, and we don't need infrastructure that we have. And so, 
that's why I think we can reduce our military budget. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Okay, another question. 

I don't mean this facetiously, but I've got a 
number of constituents that have problems with Workers Comp 

Can you give me any idea as to what should be 
done to improve the Workers Comp program? 

MR. MOORE: Well, I think it — 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I get the problems that they are 
confronted with, and primarily it's the length of time it takes 
to go through the process. You know, it appears as though it's 
one stalling mechanism after another from both sides. 

And they believe that there is a way to fix it. 
I don't believe that their way is appropriate, but do you have 
any way? 

MR. MOORE: Well, the Legislature put into effect 
some reforms several years ago. I think we're seeing those 
reforms take affect. 

One of the reforms, or an adjunct to the reforms, 
was the carve out program, which is separate and distinct from 
the comp system. That seems to be working and delivering 
benefits, and that seems to be working well. And that may be 
one small answer to some of the problems. 

We have — the number of cases has declined in 
the last couple of years, in the last two years, by ten percent. 
Our appeals have increased by 25 percent, which is responding to 
the issues that came with reform, all the psychiatric problems 


and cases, and that kind of thing. 

But in Santa Monica, Long Beach, Los Angeles, Van 
Nuys, those courts are very impacted as far as number of cases 
are concerned, and there are some problems in those -- in those 
particular local boards. 

Throughout the rest of state, the system seems to 
be working reasonably well. Senator. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Let me give you an example of 
the people involved, and they have injuries. 

The insurance company sends them to a doctor. 
Their attorney sends them to a different doctor. They may go do 
that a couple of times, because now they have to have 
information from both sides. 

They still can't agree, so then they go to a 
third doctor, or a thijrd set of doctors that becomes an 

And their concern, this all takes, you know, 
many, many months. It takes a process of probably a year to two 
years before they get all of this information, and a trial date, 
et cetera. 

And their suggestion is that they should go to an 
arbitrating doctor immediately. Why not have both sides agree 
to a particular medical official, whether it be a doctor or 
whatever, but have them agree. And whatever he says, that's it. 

Is that reasonable? 

MR. MOORE: It may be reasonable, but I think 
that the Legislature, several years ago, put into effect a 
number of things, including the presumption of correctness of 


the report of the treating physician. And if an injured worker 
relies on his treating physician, the treating physician's 
report will be presumed to be correct. 

And this particular aspect of the reform has 
reduced the number of medical legal examinations in comp cases 
from 2.9 on average, 2.9 examinations per case, down to 1.6, and 
I think that the reforms are taking hold in this regard. 


What percentage of the claims that you have on 
file are related to stress? 

MR. MOORE: Just looking at the 1700 and some odd 
cases I've seen this year, and I'm just one of three people on a 
panel, about 17-and-a-half percent of the cases involve stress 
claims. Senator. 

SENATOR AYTUuA: These are from — 

MR. MOORE: These are from all walks of life, 
from police officers, to correctional officers, to office 
workers of all sorts. 

SENATOR AYALA: Some of those stress claims are 
an insult to the intelligence of the average person, I think. 
Some of these people that file all these claims in for stress 
ought to see movie about the finding of Private Ryan, and take a 
look at those people who were at that beach and see how many of 
them put in a claim for stress. 

You know, most of these claims, they're 
legitimate claims all right, but most of the stress claims are 
big joke, in my opinion. 

MR. MOORE: As far as the stress claims are 


concerned, psychiatric claims are concerned, in 1989 and again 
in 1993, we had some reforms which changed the threshold for 
proof to substantially caused by actual events of employment. 

You have to be employed by six months, for six 
months, by the same employer, to be able to put in a stress 

If you claim stress after you've been terminated, 
you have to show that you've been treated before for that 
problem before you were terminated, and that kind of thing. 

I think some of these things — and the good 
faith personnel action, which we have just defined in two cases, 
I think that the reforms are working. Senator. 

SENATOR AYALA: I think that there are legitimate 
cases . 

MR. MOORE: Yes. 

SENATOR AYALA: But there are some that are so 
ridiculous that, you know, they're laughable, and we've still 
got to go through the process of denying the claim in most 
cases . 

You've seen the opposition, Mr. Moore, where the 
judge's decision was overturned. You voted in favor of the 
insurer-employer position 30 out of 31 times. This is labor's 

How do you respond to that? 

MR. MOORE: I don't keep those kind of 
statistics. Senator. 


MR. MOORE: I've seen, as of yesterday afternoon. 


I've seen 2,048 cases that I've signed on the dotted line. And 
I call them the way I see them. That's what you do as a judge, 
and that's what I'm doing here. 

SENATOR AYALA: That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other questions? Testimony 
in support, please. Testimony in opposition, please. 

MR. RUSSO: Members of the Committee, good 
afternoon. My name is Frank Russo. I'm President of the 
California Applicants Attorneys Association, a group of 
approximately 1,000 attorneys statewide who represent injured 

I'm glad to be here with representatives from 
labor, and also joining the California Society of Industrial ■ 
Medical Physicals who evaluate cases, in opposition to the 
confirmation of Douglas Moore. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Who is that group 

MR. RUSSO: California Society of Industrial 
Medical. They're the physicals who evaluate Workers 
Compensation cases. 


MR. RUSSO: For the last 16 years, the Workers 
Compensation Appeals Board has been composed of appointees of 
Governor Deukmejian and Wilson. And their decisions, for the 
most part, have ruled against the interest and the rights of 
injured workers. 

Earlier governors, such as Ronald Reagan even, 
and Jerry Brown, balanced the Workers Comp Board with 


Commissioners from both management and labor backgrounds. 

It's most important for you to note that since 
1993, the Workers Compensation Commissioners serve a term of six 
years, which is long beyond the term of the next governor. We 
feel that the next governor should be entitled to fill his 
administration with appointees of his own choosing, and that we 
should not have a Workers Compensation Appeals Board 
Commissioner appointed as a lame-duck appointment of the 
outgoing governor. 

For the reasons that we state in our letter, and 
any other questions the Committee has, we are in opposition to 
confirmation here. 


MR. RANKIN: Tom Rankin, California Labor 

We also are opposed to the confirmation. I'm 
sure that Mr. Moore is a good lawyer, it sounds like, but we 
believe the Board, particularly at this time, after 16 years of 
imbalanced appointments, needs balance. 

Remember that the terms are now six years long as 
a result of one of the recent reforms. And we don't find that 
Mr. Moore's decisions have been balanced. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Question, Senator Ayala. 

SENATOR AYALA: I just want to make a comment. 

I keep hearing about lame-duck gubernatorial 
appointments. That goes for both Democrats and Republicans. 

Should we make it a year before the term is up, 
that they can appoint no one else beyond their term limit, and 


put it in the Constitution? Is that what you folks are looking 

Or if it's a Democratic governor, it's okay? 

I'm serious about that. 

MR. RUSSO: I'm only here today on the question 
of this nomination which will effect things for the next six 

Whether the Senate wants to consider a 
Constitutional amendment or other legislation concerning 
appointments is something I'm not really prepared to take any 
hard and fast positions on. 

However, our membership and a number of attorneys 
have consulted us regarding this appointment, and on behalf of 
our clients, we feel this is a bad appointment and should not be 

SENATOR AYALA: The greater picture is, should we 
prohibit governors from making appointments in their last year 
in office in order to avoid this lame-duck appointment that 
everybody resists all the time? 

MR. RUSSO: Certainly in this case, an 
appointment for the next six years. 

SENATOR AYALA: I'm not talking about this one 
case. I'm talking about the bigger picture, not only for this 
one case, so this doesn't come up again. 

MR. RUSSO: I don't know. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Did organized labor ever oppose 


any lame-duck appointments by Governor Brown? 

MR. RANKIN: I wasn't here at the time. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Lewis. Call 
the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. Senator Hughes. 
Senator Knight. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 


SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. Two 

to zero. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: The nomination is with the 

[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 4:25 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 



I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Coinmittee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

J IN WIT^SS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 


day of s4-e^V9^, InO^ 1998. 

Shorthand Reporter 


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NOV - S 1998 



ROOM 3191 


1:45 P.M. 





ROOM 3191 


1:45 P.M. 

Reported by 

Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 










GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NANCY MICHEL, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 






The Regents of the University of California 


Merced Community College 


California Women for Agriculture 


The Regents of the University of California 


GREGORY GOOD, Executive Director 
Teach for America 

DIANE ROBINSON, Incoming Executive Director 
Teach for America 


The Regents of the University of California 



ALICE GONZALES, Former Member 
Board of Regents 

ANNE RUDIN, Former Mayor 
City of Sacramento 

Legislative Advocate 

LARRY CARR, Immediate Past President 
Sacramento Chapter 
UCLA Alumni Association 

PETER M. ROONEY, Secretary 

California Environmental Protection Agency 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees; 


Board of Regents 

University of California 1 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 2 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

President Atkinson's Proposal of 

4 Percent High School Admissions 4 

Information from High Schools 5 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Policy of Committee to Not Confirm Terms 

that Run into Term of New Governor 6 

Intention of Committee to Hold Appointment 7 

Witnesses in Support: 


Merced Community College 8 

PAMELA JONES, Former President 

California Women for Agriculture 10 


Board of Regents 

University of California 13 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 15 

Witnesses in Support: 

GREGORY GOOD, Executive Director 

Teach for America 17 

DIANE ROBINSON, Incoming Executive Director 

Teach for America 18 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Proposals of 12-1/2 and 4 Percent to 

Accept High School Admissions 19 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Committee's Intention to Hold 

Appointment in Committee 20 


Board of Regents 

University of California 21 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 22 

Witnesses in Support: 

ALICE GONZALES, Former Member 

Board of Regents 

University of California 25 

ANNE RUDIN, Former Mayor 

City of Sacramento 28 


Legislative Advocate 30 

LARRY CARR, Immediate Past President 

Sacramento Chapter 

UCLA Alumni Association 32 

Questions by SENATOR LEWIS re: 

Legislative Background 33 

Questions by SENATOR HUGHES re: 

Proactiveness on Admissions Issue 34 

Statements by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Intention to Hold Appointment 

in Committee 37 


PETER M. ROONEY, Secretary 

California Environmental Protection Agency 37 

Introduction and Support by 


Background and Experience 38 

Motion to Confirm 39 

Committee Action 39 

Letter in Opposition from 


Termination of Proceedings 39 

Certificate of Reporter 40 

--ooOoo — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: First appointee today, Carol 
Chandler, Member of the Board of Regents. 

SENATOR COSTA: Members of the Rules Committee, 
it's my distinct pleasure to introduce to you an individual who 
has been appointed by the Governor of California to the 
California Board of Regents. 

We think it is extremely important for the 
Central Valley to have a representative on the California Board 
of Regents. We are attempting to try to get the first 
University of California to be located in the San Joaquin 
Valley. We're not there yet, but we're making progress. 

But my comments briefly this afternoon are 
directed toward Carol Chandler, a person whom I've had the 
pleasure to know for many, many, many years. She and her family 
have been extremely active on behalf of community efforts to 
provide better educational opportunities, to provide assistance 
to the needy, and to assist in trying to improve the overall 
quality of life for people who live in the Valley. 

She herself is a graduate of the University of 
California at Davis. She has, obviously, a love and an 
affection and a fondness for the institution, and a tremendous 
pride in seeing that the University of California remain the 
highest educational institution in not only the nation but in 
the world. 

I think it's with those goals and those 
aspirations she has directed her own efforts toward representing 

not just the Valley, but to try to improve the overall quality 
of education and the opportunities for education for students in 
the Valley and students throughout the State of California. 

I highly recommend her, and I believe she's done 
a good job since she's been there, and would like to see her 

Let me also add that when the Governor made the 
appointment, I was not critical toward this appointment, whom I 
take a great deal of pride in, but I think one appointment, 
frankly, from the Valley is lacking. With the population base 
in the State of California, with the fastest growing region 
being the San Joaquin Valley, frankly there should be two or 
three appointments from the great Central Valley that serve on 
the Board of Regents. One almost smacks of tokenism, and we 
think we ought to have at least two or three appointments from 
the Valley on the Board of Regents. 

She does a good job, and we'd like to have her 
stay there. Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. Senator. 

MS. CHANDLER: Mr. Chairman and Members of the 
Committee, my goal as a Regent of the University of California 
is to help this great University meet the educational challenges 
of the next century. In pursuit of that goal, I bring several 
unique qualifications to the Board. 

As Senator Costa said, I am the only Regent from 
the Central Valley. And often, I find myself speaking as the 
voice for Valley on the Board. 

I'm a strong advocate for UC Merced. In many, 

many yearS/ the students of the Central Valley have been 
underrepresented and underserved by the University of 
California. In fact, our students attend the University at half 
the rate of the students of the rest of the state. 

We must meet the growing needs of the Valley and 
Tidal Wave Two, which is looming on the horizon. 

Agriculture is our number one industry in 
California, and my background is in production agriculture. UC 
research has made a tremendous impact on the industry. We have 
ten agricultural field stations throughout the state which 
contribute greatly in the outreach effort to bring the fine 
University research and development to the people. This is part 
of our land grant mission, and the cooperative extension 
specialists are an extremely valuable resource. 

Outreach is the cooperative extension of the next 
century. We need to broaden access to higher education. As a 
former high school and community college educator, I see the 
need to increase community college transfers and improve 
articulation. We need to monitor the 20 experimental pilot 
programs that are in place by the University to increase our 
eligibility pool in the post-affirmative action era. 

I have worked with principals and teachers to 
develop partnerships between K-12 and the University of 
California to improve performance and provide incentive. It's 
important to raise the standards for all students. With that, 
we can provide incentive and give them the tools to open the 
door and have their keys to success. 

Finally, as the parent of a UC student and a UC 

Davis alumna, I know that the biggest concern today is, can I 
afford a college education for my child. I think if we 
compromise af fordability, we compromise access. 

We need to keep student fees low. We need to 
increase financial aid and scholarships. 

It has been a privilege to serve as a Regent for 
the University which has contributed so much to my life, my 
family, and my industry. 

And now I'm pleased to answer any questions you 
may have, and I would appreciate your support. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you very much. 

Questions from Members of the Committee? Senator 
Hughes . 

SENATOR HUGHES: You're aware of the fact, I 
imagine, that I was pushing for 12.5 percent admissions of all 
high schools to the UC system. I have now lowered my proposal 
to the UC Faculty Committee's proposal. 

And I'd like to know if you, as a Member of the 
Board of Regents, would be encouraging the Regents to accept 
that proposal that came out of President Atkinson's office for 
four percent? 

MS. CHANDLER: We've been studying that proposal 
very carefully, and I serve to the Educational Policy 
Committee. And I think it has definite merit. 

What we're waiting for at this point is the 
report from the Academic Senate. And what they're waiting for 
is feedback from the high schools. 

I believe we have only received feedback from 15 

of the 858 high schools in this state. So, we're hoping to get 
some more feedback and have them buy into the whole process. 

But personally, I think great it would be a great 
incentive for the rural schools in my area to provide the 
classes that make their students eligible for University of 
California. I know there are a lot of schools in my area that 
just don't have the classes that are required. So, that could 
be a real plus for us in the Central Valley. 

SENATOR HUGHES: So, are you saying that you are 
committed, and you would encourage the high schools to get in 
that information so that you could proceed to evaluate whether 
you want to adopt the four percent plan or not? 

MS. CHANDLER: Absolutely. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Do you in your own mind have a 
deadline in terms of time? I mean, you could wait forever for 
high schools to come forth with the information. 

I would like to know if you would be committed to 
pushing the high schools to come forth by a time definitive, 
because that could go on into the 23rd Century if you just left 
it up to them to do it on their own. 

MS. CHANDLER: I agree. I'm very committed, and 
I think we should set time line. 

I think that we are losing students who could be 
eligible. There is a tremendous lack of preparation that's out 
there for students, and especially in my area. And I think that 
we need to make the schools, the high schools, step up to the 
plate and level the playing field so that all students have the 
opportunity to be eligible. 

SO/ I would encourage stepping up and making sure 
that this happens in the next few months. I think the Academic 
Senate is probably going to come forth with some sort of ruling 
fairly soon. We expect it to be on the agenda. 

SENATOR HUGHES: If it's not on the agenda? 

MS. CHANDLER: We'll work on getting that 
information as soon as possible. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Regent Chandler, one of the 
things that unfortunately faces this Committee, and we've had 
the problems with several appointees, including some State 
College, State University Board of Trustees, is the fact of 
really making appointments and confirming appointments that go 
into the term of a new Governor. 

And it has been the general policy, at least of 
the majority of the Members of the Committee, and it's the 
policy that I support, to not do confirmations that go into the 
term of the new Governor. And if, in point of fact, either 
there's a change in the administration and the direction of the 
administration, because there will be a change no matter who's 
Governor, we think that Governor should have opportunity to make 
the appointment. 

If there's a continuation of the policy, then the 
new Governor would also have the right to follow through on the 
policies of the Wilson administration. 

I've had discussions with the Governor about 


this. We have, needless to say, a disagreement about it. 

And it is no way a reflection on people that are 
nominated for these positions. But just last week, I found 
myself turning down a former classmate of my law partners on the 
same principle. 

And it's at least the intention of the Chair on 
these matters where they go into the term of the next Governor 
to, at least at this time, hold them in the Committee. 

I know that a dear friend of mine, a former 
Regent, Stanley Sheinbaum, called me and spoke very highly of 
you. That has to be a very difficult call for Stanley to make, 
not to talk about you, but to talk to me. 

But be that as it may, that's been the policy on 
others, and that's going to be the policy here today. And 
either apologizing for it or explaining it to you doesn't make 
it any the less, either, distressing for you, but that's kind of 
how it is. 

So, I thank you. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, I was going to make 
this comment. 

Of course, the one difference with the case of 
Regents is that their term of office, they can't help, because 
of the length of the term of office, they can't help but go over 
into someone else's administration. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I understand that. Some 
Regents will even go beyond whether it's Lungren or Davis. 
That's kind of the purpose. 

Again it's not an easy thing, but it is a fact; 


it just is a fact of life. It's kind of unfortunate. It's 
either one of the strengths or weaknesses in the advice and 
consent responsibilities. 

SENATOR COSTA: Mr. Chairman, Ms. Chandler has 
two other individuals that would want to speak on her behalf. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Sure, absolutely. 

SENATOR COSTA: Thank you. 

MS. CHANDLER: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I should have asked for that 
before. Thank you. Senator Costa. 

MR. DURAN: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Rules 
Committee, my name is Benjamin Duran. I'm the President of 
Merced Community College in Merced, California, which is the 
site of the next University of California campus. 

I'm here today to ask, even in light of the 
comments recently, to ask for your support in the confirmation 
of Carol Chandler as a Regent for the University of California. 

As I became involved in the campaign to bring the 
University of California to our city, I had the opportunity to 
meet with her and to speak with her at length. Following a 
number of conversations with Carol, it became apparent to me 
that we shared many of the same concerns and views regarding 
higher education in the Central Valley. 

As an educator who has experience in both the 
K-12 system as well as the community college system, I was 
impressed by the fact that Carol also had experience at the high 
school level and at the community college level. 

This certainly interest in education, coupled 

with her community service, have contributed making her a strong 
and respected voice for the youth of the Central Valley. This 
advocacy has carried over to her duties as Regent, which is 
demonstrated by her call for higher education to provide more 
opportunities, and then use for Valley residents to take 
advantage of opportunities offered by the higher education 
system in California, with a special emphasis on the University 
of California, which historically has recorded very low numbers 
for students from the Central Valley. 

Two groups that show especially low numbers are 
students from underrepresented minority groups and those 
students from very small, rural high schools, students who are 
often very talented, but just can't find their way to the 
University of California. 

It's my belief that Carol Chandler is an 
individual who has the background, the commitment, and 
interestingly, when you see her, you wouldn't think this, but 
when we get into conversations, she can be quite passionate to 
speak on behalf of the Central Valley. So, I believe she also 
has that passion. 

But she does this while displaying the wisdom to 
consider the well-being of the entire University of California 
system and the issues that will come before her as a Regent for 

UC Merced, the Central Valley, the entire 
University of California system, and the State of California 
would be well served by her appointment. I urge you — I urge a 
yes vote, and thank you for your time this afternoon. 



MS. JONES: Mr. Chairman and the Committee, 
thank you very much. My name is Pam Jones, and I appreciate the 
opportunity to share why I believe Carol Chandler has the 
intellect, the integrity, and yes, even the compassion to serve 
on the Board of Regents. 

Before 1982, I don't think I'd ever met a farmer, 
and I'd probably never met anyone from the Central Valley who 
wasn't a politician or involved in politics up here. I was born 
and raised in the Bay Area, not far from Carol. I'd been a 
reporter. Had my perception and my knowledge challenged during 
a fellowship with the Coral Foundation, and worked in a 
political campaign for them, helping to elect some of your 
colleagues and your would-be colleagues. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Democrats or Republicans? 

MS. JONES: Both, actually. That was very 

After I worked on the political campaign firm, I 
found myself being — working on an issue with agriculture. And 
that's when I met Bill Chandler, and subsequently his wife, 
Carol Chandler. Before that, my knowledge of people in the 
Valley and farmers was that they were quaint at best, maybe a 
little hokey, and sometimes perhaps greedy and intolerant. 

But those stereotypes seemed to fade away when 
the people emerged, and the people were people such as Carol 
Chandler, that I found were intelligent, interested in the 
issues, had strong opinions, yet were willing to listen to the 
opinions of others. 


In 1982, I joined a group called California Women 
for Agriculture. Carol was instrumental in founding the 
organization in Fresno. It's a statewide organization, 3500 
members. It basically tries to share the sense of the value of 
California agriculture to the economy and to the quality of life 
in California. 

I didn't know much about agriculture. It was 
people like Carol who took the time to share with me, not in a 
dogmatic way, but to provide the opportunity to learn about 
agriculture. Not all of it good, but very proud of it. 

In 1994, I helped put together a week looking at 
agriculture for the Coral Fellows, mostly they're focused on 
urban issues, but agriculture was such a vital part. I called 
on Carol and other people to open their homes, to open their 
farms, sometimes they even opened up their books, and open up 
their minds to enter into discussions with urban people, young 
people, recent graduates of the University, to look at 
agricultural issues and exchange information, to open a 

That's what Carol has said to me on many 
occasions, I do this to open the dialogue, to provide an 
opportunity for these people that they wouldn't otherwise have. 

It's that kind of open-mindedness, intelligence, 
discussion of issues, that both through the Coral ag. week, and 
when I was President of the California Women for Agriculture, I 
saw in Carol, as she discussed issues not just with an eye to 
what's good for the farmer, but to providing access to 


Carol is probably not what you'd call a polished 
politician, but neither is she is a patsy, whether that's to the 
Governor, or to a Legislator, or even to her husband. Bill. 

She is proud of her family farming operation. 
She's proud of the community that she's from. She's proud of 
the efforts to provide access to thousands of students in Fresno 
County at the county fairs, to see what agriculture is about, 
and to show them that a fair is more than just carnival rides. 
And I've seen her at work, trying to provide that opportunity to 
students, just as with the young urban people. 

California's agricultural community is strong for 
a few key reasons: climate, soil, and the University of 
California system. And it's the latter that probably makes us 
different than many states and other countries. Carol sees the 
value of this University system in keeping agriculture the vital 
industry that it is to provide $27 billion worth of income, a 
multiplier of 70 billion, and that the University research and 
extension service is crucial to that. 

I would hope that this would be considered in 
appointing people to the Board of Supervisors [sic] . 

In conclusion, I speak not only as someone who is 
in agriculture, but as a parent of three students who are likely 
future students at the University of California. I realize this 
is a political appointment, but as a consumer, as a parent, I 
would hope that that really would not be the prime consideration 
in this issue. That's what my hope is. 

Carol does have the intellect, the integrity, and 
the compassion to serve not only the Valley and the farming 


community, but parents such as myself, whether they're in an 
urban area or a rural area. 

Thank you very much. 


Any other witnesses in support? Thank you very 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Next to introduce John Hotchkis 
is Senator Schiff. 

SENATOR SCHIFF: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, 
Members . 

It's my great privilege and honor to introduce 
John Hotchkis for your consideration for confirmation to the UC 
Board of Regents. 

John is a third generation graduate of the 
University of California. He's also a graduate of UCLA Business 
School . 

His children, all except the one that got away 
and now attends Stanford, or did attend Stanford in my class, 
are also UC grads . 

But before I tell you more about John's 
involvement with UC, I wanted to give you just a sample of some 
of the incredibly extensive background he has in community and 
civic life, a background which I think makes him a superbly 
qualified candidate for confirmation to the UC. 

First of all, he's a governor on the Music Center 
Board. He is a director of the World Affairs Council in Los 
Angeles. He's a director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic 
Association. He is a director of the Big Brothers of greater 


Los Angeles, which I take particular pride in, having been a Big 
Brother with Big Brothers of Los Angeles for more than 12 
years. He is also a director of KCET, the Public Broadcasting 
Corporation of Southern California, and a director of Teach for 

There are two witnesses who would also like to 
testify today on Mr. Hotchkis' behalf from Teach for America. 

With respect to the University of California, 
though, I think his record is equally impressive. He is one of 
only four co-chairs of the $1.1 billion capital campaign for the 
University of California at Berkeley. 

He is not only a Regent himself, but he is a 
second generation Regent. His father was a Regent before him. 

But I think what makes Mr. Hotchkis particularly 
well qualified for the UC at this time and at this place is his 
business expertise, and that is, Mr. Hotchkis is a manager of an 
international or global money management firm. And we 
desperately need a Regent with that kind of fiscal experience. 
The UC invests 43 billion in assets. 

The Treasurer of the UC reports to the Board of 
Regents. There is no one else on the Board of Regents that has 
this kind of financial expertise. He has already instituted 
procedures to make sure that there's a performance audit of how 
those funds are being invested. 

Given that massive amount of assets within the UC 
jurisdiction, given the pressures that it may face with the 
Asian crisis going on now, with the crisis going on in the 
Soviet Union, former Soviet Union, rather, I think it's 


essential that we have someone with that kind of strong 
financial expertise that the UC can draw upon. 

And when you couple that financial strength and 
expertise with the clear and very long-standing dedication to 
community and civic life, I think I have an eminently well 
qualified candidate for the Board of Regents. 

I'm very proud to recommend him for your 
consideration and introduce him here today, Mr. Chairman. 


Mr. Hotchkis. 

MR. HOTCHKIS: Thank you very much, 
Mr. Chairman, Members. 

Covering a few of the same points that were just 
covered, I am fourth generation Californian. I am a third 
generation Berkeley Graduate. My grandfather and grandmother 
were in the Class of 1898; my father was in the Class of 1960 
[sic]. He was an Alumni Regent in 1936. And there has been a 
succession of other members of the family that have attended the 
schools . 

We have been heavy supporters of both Berkeley 
and Davis. I hope you don't hold that against me in any way. 
We feel these are very important schools, and we have a great 
passion for them. 

I do bring, as Senator Schiff said, a fair amount 
of background in global institutional money management. I think 
there is a huge need for that. I think that's probably one of 
the main reasons I was asked if I was interested in being a 
Regent, so that the Regents do have some way of looking after a 


really enormous amount of money, $43 billion. 

Since we have a responsibility, all 26 Regents, 
since the Treasurer reports to the 26 Regents, it's vastly 
important to be sure that money is considered precious. It's 
going to be extremely important when we see valleys again in 
economic conditions, which we will. It's extremely important to 
support scholarships. It's extremely important to remember that 
are many thousand of people who have retired from the UC system, 
and those funds are taking care of their retirement. There's 
150, 000 employees of the University, and those funds are there 
for their retirement. The endowment will take care of an awful 
lot of problems down the road. So, it's very important. 

But one of the most, I think, crucial things is 
that I have been for ten years working with a group called Teach 
for America. I'd like to bring them up here in a moment just to 
tell you that, my God, in Los Angeles, a 6th grader has about a 
12 percent chance of reading at the 8th grade level by the time 
that student is 18 years old. 

We just can't have that. We're losing a whole 
generation of students. It just seems to me, at least, the 
opportunity for an excellent education should be as universal as 
the right to vote. And if we don't face that problem pretty 
soon, it's going to be difficult. 

May I bring — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yes, please. 

MR. HOTCHKIS: I'd like to introduce to you Greg 
Good and Diane Robinson of Teach for America. 

Greg, would you just explain a little of what's 


been going on? 

MR. GOOD: Mr. Chairman, Members of the 
Committee, thank you. 

I am the Executive Director of Teach for 
America. We are a national teacher corps of recent college 
graduates recruited, selected, from diverse backgrounds and 
academic majors, who commit to teach for two years in our 
nation's most under-resourced urban and rural public schools. 

These folks emerge from this experience with a 
heightened level of consciousness that, in some cases, will lead 
them to a career in education, and others to assume leadership 
positions in the private sector, in government, et cetera. 

Mr. Hotchkis, from the very beginning of our 
organization, from its inception in 1990, has not only played a 
leadership role on behalf of Teach for America throughout 
California, but in fact basically shepherded us into this 
state. He has supported us personally. He has introduced us to 
many different supporters, both in the education world in this 
state, as well as the private sector and the media, and has been 
a big force for us. 

And Teach for America essentially is answering a 
question in Los Angeles that has to be answered, both in the 
immediate, with teacher shortages and providing outstanding 
folks to fill those vacancies, as well as providing leadership 
in terms of folks who leave this experience and move on to other 
things, including being principals, et cetera. 

So, I'm now going to be leaving Teach for America 
and would like to introduce Diane Robinson. 


MS. ROBINSON; My name is Diane Robinson, and I'm 
the incoming Executive Director of Teach for America in Los 
Angeles . 

I was recruited to join the corps in 1994, and I 
was placed to teach in Compton, California, where I taught for 
two years a first grade classroom. In Compton, I saw many 
inequities, but I also saw children who wanted to learn, so I 
focused on implementing a curriculum that would empower my 
students to succeed and give them an equal opportunity to 

I was also moved to join school leadership, and I 
continued teaching for another two years in Hawthorne. 

Basically I'm here to support John Hotchkis in 
his nomination, and I would ask for his confirmation because I 
think his support in our efforts has been tremendous. And in 
order for us to continue what we're doing, and bringing teachers 
into the classrooms to affect the lives of these children, I 
think it would be imperative for someone like John Hotchkis to 
be involved in this effort. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have other witnesses? 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 

SENATOR HUGHES: I'd just like to thank both of 
the witnesses for teaching in my district. I know quite a bit 
about Teach for America. I observed teachers from Teach for 
America working on site in Compton, and in Hawthorne, both in my 



SO/ don't leave. Come back, recruit more young 

And to the Regent, thank you for being so astute 
and aware of the need. 

The question I want to ask you is the question 
that I asked Regent Chandler about how she felt about my 
proposal for the 12.5 percent, and then I picked up on President 
Atkinson's and the faculty's proposal for 4 percent. 

What do you think about those proposals, and what 
do you plan on doing about it, if anything? 

MR. HOTCHKIS: Senator Hughes, first of all, you 
probably know more about the University system than I know, 
having had give siblings there. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I had five children there, so 
we're even. 

MR. HOTCHKIS: Well, I think this is an extremely 
good idea. I support it. 

It is clearly a case where the problem is getting 
the high schools to return their little slips, or whatever it 
is . 

I would like to see this thing get going. I am 
extremely anxious for any way that we can push this thing 
along. Sometimes it's like hitting a sponge; nothing seems to 

All I can say is that it's certainly worth 
pursuing, and I'll do the best I can. 

SENATOR HUGHES: The same question, a follow-up 


question that I asked Chandler, and that is, if the high schools 
don't come forth shortly with their report, will you be 
complacent and patient enough to wait until they answer you, or 
will you be aggressive and pushy enough to say that time is of 
the essence because these children can no longer be outside the 

MR. HOTCHKIS: Well, I share the same answer as 
Carol Chandler. I think that we can't wait forever. I think 
that definitely it would be very important for this to get 

And how that's going to be handled, clearly, I'm 
all for getting it done. 

SENATOR HUGHES: Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Other questions. Members. 

As I said earlier, and many people also have 
called me about Regent Hotchkis and we had discussion, but 
again, it is the same situation that we're facing as far as 
appointments going into the next administration again. 

Conceivably, if you have a continuation of this 
administration after November's election, that there would be 
time to revisit this issue on the appointment. 

But at this time, it would be my intention, 
again, to hold the measures, leave them in the Committee. And 
if Lt . Governor Davis wins, it's one thing; if Attorney General 
Lungren wins, it's certainly something else. That would give us 
some time to revisit. 

Thank you. 

MR. HOTCHKIS: I thank you all, too. I hope that 


I do have your support when the time comes. 

Thank you. 
SENATOR SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 


Thank you, Senator. 
Regent Ochoa. 
Senator Calderon. 

SENATOR CALDERON: Yes, Mr. Pro Tem, Members of 
the Rules Committee, I realize that these are very difficult 
decisions that have nothing to do with the candidates before 
you. It has a lot to do with the fact that they're appointed 
for twelve years. And we're at the end of one administration, 
with the possibility of a new administration coming in. 

Certainly, I do not disagree with some of the 
statements that have been made here today, and some of the 
thinking that has been expressed in terms of whether it is wise 
to make such an appointment for such period of time. 

I'm here for two reasons in that regard. The 
first is that Regent Ochoa would only be appointed to fill out, 
I think, a year-and-a-half , so it's not a twelve-year term. It 
is a one-year-and-a-half . 

Probably the second and most important reason I'm 
here is because I've known him for a long time from the 
community. We've sort of grown up together, he before I. In 
fact, he was even out there, brokering my Assembly race when I 
ran for the State Assembly. Not really brokering, but turned 
out to play a very strategic part that ultimately cleared the 
way for me to be elected. And at that time, of course, there 
were only five Latinos, I think, in the entire Legislature. 


So, I think it's important for me to be here 
because he's a friend, because he's been consistent in what he 
has stood for, and that is diversity. And with the position 
that the University has taken with respect to affirmative 
action, I think it's particularly important to have someone 
there who we don't have to explain or educate about the 
importance for diversity. 

But also to have somebody there who has the 
skill, experience, and the know-how that, not withstanding 
actions that the University has taken, or even initiatives that 
have passed, will know how to bring in and maintain that 
diversity in the University of California. 

I guess in short, I know that with Ralph there, I 
don't have to worry about anybody else from my community having 
a chance. I know he'll be there for them, to give them an 
opportunity at this American pie, in the same way he was there 
for me. 

And so, it's with that experience of what he's 
done and who he is, and also his record as a long-standing 
Democrat, that I come before this Committee and, without 
reservation, can recommend him to you, not withstanding some of 
the valid considerations that have been raised with respect to 
the end of one administration and the beginning of the other. 

I hope that you give him careful consideration, 
and keep in mind, it's just a year-and-a-half . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. Senator. 

MR. OCHOA: Mr. Chairman, Senators, thank you 
Senator Calderon, good afternoon. 


My desire to continue serving on the UC Board of 
Regents stems from first my commitment to education, both public 
and private, and from my involvement over the past 15 years in 
serving UC in a myriad of leadership positions. 

My dedication to promoting education is derived 
from my appreciation for opportunity I received, allowing me to 
be educated at a world class university, in spite of the fact 
that I was born and raised in East Los Angeles by immigrant 
parents who had virtually no formal education. UCLA, as a 
public university, was accessible. 

Today, I believe more than ever that higher 
education is perhaps the most effective vehicle for leveling the 
playing field of our richly diverse population. However, 
California is at a critical juncture as to whether the public UC 
system can ensure access for qualified students from all 
communities. If we. fail in this mission, the richness which I 
believe diversity contributes to a full learning experience in 
an intellectually stimulating environment will be lost. 

Diversity; diversity of backgrounds, ideas, 
cultures, diversity of languages, values, mores, and 
ethnicities. This diversity is the vitality of our American 
democracy, the cornerstone of our international and global 
intellectual academy in a modern society. 

As far as the contributions to UC, in a special 
way to my alma mater, UCLA, I've learned much and prepared 
myself to serve effectively and responsibly as a UC Regent. 
I've got a number of those roles, but I'll mention only one, and 
address a couple of issues which I think are extremely important 


and topical with the UC Regents. 

In 1995, I was nominated by UC President Atkinson 
to serve as a public member on the Western Association of 
Schools and Colleges, the accrediting commission for senior 
colleges and universities in California. It's given me the 
opportunity to work with a number of presidents of both the 
private universities, and CSU, also UC campuses, and 
understanding how they evaluate the success of what their 
efforts are to educate young people in our colleges in 

As far as what the University of California is 
doing relative to outreach in K-12, and also outreaching to the 
community college system, I think that it's really critical. I 
think that in my due diligence on some of those information, I 
can speak not only on behalf of the communities that we're 
trying to outreach, but more importantly, a voice from those 
particular communities. 

It wasn't morning about six weeks ago that the 
L.A. Times did an in-depth study, sufficiently comprehensive, 
over four or five days. And the upshot of that was that the 
K-12 system in California is a veritable disaster. And the L.A . 
Times is also now focusing on the community college system. 

There's a Memorandum of Understanding between the 
UC President Atkinson and State Chancellor of the Community 
Colleges, a Memorandum of Understanding in order to increase the 
number of student transfers from the 106 community colleges. 

I think there's some dramatic statistics, though, 
that very few of you are probably aware of, except that I know 


Senator Teresa Hughes has been working on this issue. Out of 
the 106 community colleges in California, 90 percent of those 
transferees to UC come from only 22 of those colleges. And 
there really is an important question, that if all we're doing 
with the Memorandum of Understanding is trying to increase the 
number of transferees, they still come from only 22 of those 106 

I think that it's important for persons like 
myself, who do the due diligence and understand those 
communities, to be able to have the dedication in those 
particular issues, which are critical today, and the issue of 
affirmative action, to understand those particular facts. To 
the extent that those facts are not brought to the attention of 
the Board of Regents, I think that we will miss opportunities to 
have as great a success as we need with the outreach of UC. 

Thank you. Members. I only bring your attention 
to the fact that I am here asking your confirmation on only a 
year-and-a-half left to my term. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Are there witnesses in support? 

MR. OCHOA: Yes, I do. Senator. 

MS. GONZALES: Good afternoon. Senator Burton, 
Members of the Committee. 

I saw Nancy Michel's up here. I haven't seen her 
for awhile. I hear that she's about ready to retire. It's nice 
to see her also. 

My name is Alice Gonzales. I live in Rocklin, 
California, former resident of the Bay Area, and I think I've 
known Senator Burton for a long time, and other Members who 


represent the Bay Area. 

I come before the Committee this afternoon on 
behalf of and in support of Ralph Ochoa, whom many of you know, 
whom I consider a friend and a former colleague. 

I am sure that you are all aware of the work that 
Ralph has done, not only here in Sacramento, but on behalf of 
the state. 

I believe that Ralph is the kind of man who can 
really identify with the students, the students who he and I are 
so anxious to bring into the University system. He knows that 
the University is for and on behalf of the students. 

He, as a young Hispanic who has accomplished 
much, and acquired his education in the public system of our 
state, from grammar school through the University of California, 
and consequently, he is probably one of the strongest advocates 
for students, minority students in particular, but I believe 
that all students are part of his advocacy. He has been an 
advocate for years. 

When Ralph was the alumni representative in 1990 
to '92, we were seat mates. And he was there as the alumni rep 
and served his colleagues and former classmates very well. He 
was one of the strongest voices on behalf of students. And I 
have not forgotten that, and I hope that no one else who sat 
alongside him forgot that, either. 

He never hesitated to question the staff, to 
question the faculty, to question the administration, if it 
meant that they were not keeping their commitment to education, 
to research, and to community services. 


In those years, we — and I believe that some of 
us who sat on that Board were somewhat ahead of the curve -- we 
acknowledged, we recognized the problems between K-12 and the 
educational system that was in trouble, and we made every effort 
to address it. 

I know now that all of you are very well aware of 
what has happened and the consequences of what has happened to 
the education in the State of California and are addressing it 
by putting that money like where our mouth is. 

I know that now Ralph is involved in the 
development of model programs that will allow youngsters the 
ability and the education that they need to get into the 

I hope that all of you read the editorial in this 
morning's Sacramento Bee that addressed bridging the gap. Ralph 
Ochoa has been instrumental in the development of just like this 
program. Ralph and I were participants with the editorial board 
of the Sacramento Bee just a week or so ago that was 
instrumental in the development of this editorial piece. 

I want all of the Members of the Committee to 
keep in mind that someone like Ralph is needed on the Board to 
give it the impetus, if you will, to continue the efforts that 
will allow youngsters who are not coming from these 22 community 
colleges that he addressed because of where they live, and that 
we can get other youngsters to get into the system, regardless 
of where they live. 

And please keep in mind that Ralph's term is only 
a year-and-a-half . Senator Burton, I address that to you. 


And I am here to recommend that you confirm 
Ralph/ and I come to you without any reservations that he will 
serve you all very well. 

Thank you. 


MS. RUDIN: Thank you very much. Good 
afternoon, Senator Burton and Members of the Committee. 

I'm Anne Rudin, former Mayor of the City of 
Sacramento and public official for 21 years. 

It's an honor for me to come before you today to 
speak on behalf and in support of the confirmation of Ralph 
Ochoa to the University of California Board of Regents. 

I've known Mr. Ochoa for approximately two 
decades through his activities in the Sacramento community. He 
has an impressive record of achievement/ not just locally but 
throughout the state and the nation, as well as previous 
experience as Regent, as you all know. And that record of 
achievement is real testimony to his character, to his 
integrity, and to his sense of fairness. He's a person of 
conscience and of high ethical and moral standards. 

Mr. Ochoa 's concern for educational opportunity 
for all extends beyond the local level. It goes to the state 
level and beyond. He appreciates the importance of education as 
a leveling factor, to level the inequities that exist in our 
society, both socially and economically. He sees it as 
important in preparing an individual for a fruitful life, for a 
rewarding life, with the ability to contribute to the economy of 
our state. 


Ralph's able to address tough issues. I've seen 
him do it. He does it in a fair and constructive way, and he's 
shown in his approach to the implementation 209 and the related 
legislation and implementation policies that he can do it. 

He can express disagreement with you in the most 
civil and respectful way. At the same time, his is looking for 
consensus, and cooperation, and common ground. He's very good 
at that. He is very thoughtful and thorough in his 
consideration of issues and in solving problems, and he really 
cares about education and about the well being of the kids of 
our cities throughout California. 

He's especially able in bringing people of many 
points of view together to form consensus. He demonstrated this 
very clearly in an experience I had with him just a few years 
ago, when he played a very strong leadership role in an intense 
school bond campaign here in Sacramento. 

He and I were co-chairs, so I had pleasure of 
working with him first-hand and saw how he worked with groups 
and individuals of many diverse backgrounds to make them aware 
of the need. He's a real teacher in that way. He can explain 
things to you in such a clear, lucid way. He does it over 
lunch, he does it any opportunity he gets, and you understand 
what he's talking about. 

But he was able to make — bring the public 
together and make them aware of the need for these school bonds. 
He contributed unstintingly of his own resources in a very 
generous way, including time from his law practice to do what 
had to be done. 


He continues to lament the fact that we lost by a 
very, very small margin, two-tenths of one percent short of 
getting that two-thirds vote. 

But he was really thinking about the kids. He 
kept saying, we let the kids down when he saw the kind of 
facilities they had to continue to go to, day after day, and we 
were not able to make it well. 

I can't think of a person more suited for this 
position. I can't think of a person more trustworthy. And 
without reservation, I commend him to you for appointment. If 
he merited appointment once before, he more than ever merits it 

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity 
to speak to you. 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chair and Members, my name is 
Bob Wilson. 

I've known Ralph for 27 years. When I first came 
to the Capitol, Ralph was helping Democrats get elected to the 

One thing that Ralph has always cared about more 
than anything else, we would have discussions over the years, 
is his attempt to get poor people into the University of 

Ralph grew up poor, grew up in a family that 
didn't speak English, hardly spoke English himself, and he has 
become very successful in life because of the fact that he was 
able to receive a University of California education. 

Ralph would like to see that for everyone. That 


is his goal in life. Some people have different goals, they're 
interested in other things, but Ralph is extremely interested to 
see that poor people get into the University of California. And 
he believes that not enough poor people get into the system, 
that they are excluded. 

One of the things that he has worked on is 
articulation agreements with community colleges, so that the 
curriculum in a community college is set to be the same as the 
curriculum in the University of California. So that a person 
can take a class at San Diego Community College and have that 
transfer to the University of California. 

Those are some of the kinds of things that Ralph 
has been working on. Ralph is a person, and we all know him, 
that has a tremendous amount of energy. He comes to this job 
with more energy than anybody I know. He wants to do the job, 
and he wants to do it for one simple reason. He wants to see 
more people gets into the University of California. I can't 
think much a more noble reason to want to be a Regent. 

He wants to be there to help poor people, and 
that's what he's done. And he is unusual from this standpoint, 
that you can look at a prior record because he served on the 
Board for a two-year period of time, and that was his major 

I think that if you confirm Ralph, you'll be 
doing poor people in California an extreme service. I can't 
think of anyone in my opinion that would do a better job than 

Thank you. 



MR. CARR: Mr. Chairman, Members of the 
Committee, thank you for hearing my comments. I'll be brief. 

My name is Larry Carr I'm a retired Army Lt . 
Colonel. I taught high school last year and will do so next 
year at Sacramento High School, two programs, the ROTC program 
and a program called Add It. 

I'm also the immediate past president of the 
Sacramento Chapter UCLA Alumni Association. 

I've known Ralph Ochoa personally for five years, 
and I come here in support of his nomination. 

It was my pleasure, as the President of the UCLA 
Alumni Association to award Ralph a first ever Alumnus of the 
Year Award for the Sacramento area. We did so at the 
Legislative Conference last year. 

At Sacramento High School, I was not surprised to 
see Mr. Ochoa show up. I was not surprised to see him looking 
at the programs that we had in place and that we were trying to 
implement to ensure that we had all of the underrepresented 
groups that we could get going into the University system. 

His involvement in that on a personal level, his 
understanding that children, students, who are first-time, who 
are first generation college, need assistance. Things that are 
talked about across the dinner table in homes where parents went 
to college are not talked about at all if your parents didn't go 
to college, and Mr. Ochoa realizes that. 

And he came out to look at those programs. And 
he's seeing and acting as a pollinater of not only our 


associations with the University system, but our association 
with the college system, city college system. 

And he's even gone one step further and gone out 
to our middle schools, to the schools that feed us, to ensure 
that we have this seamless articulation, that we can have 
students who are taking the right types of courses in middle 
schools so that they're prepared for high school, so they're 
prepared to get into the University system. 

I know Ralph was instrumental, and he's using his 
position as a bully pulpit, if you will, to let everyone in the 
community know that this is a problem, and that there are ways 
to address it in this post-209 era. 

So, I come in support of Mr. Ochoa as both a 
friend and as a professional who is trying to make this 
community, and the state, and this college system better, and I 
urge your yes vote. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Questions, Members of the 
Committee? Senator Lewis. 

SENATOR LEWIS: Mr. Ochoa, I'm looking at your 
resume here, and I see that back in 1967, you were a legislative 
aide to the United States Senator, Joseph Tidings. And from 
1974 to '78, you were a chief assistant to the State Assembly 
Office Speaker, Leo McCarthy, and that also you're a registered 
Democrat . 

MR. OCHOA: Yes, sir. 

SENATOR LEWIS: I was just when wondering, are 
you part of the Governor's grand plan to politicize the Board of 


MR. OCHOA: I believe the Governor recognized the 
preparation that I've had, as I mentioned, with a number of 
leadership roles with the University of California, both as a 
volunteer and alumni, and I could hit the ground running, if you 
will, on a short term. 

I believe those are the reasons that the Governor 
selected me. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Hughes. 

SENATOR HUGHES: I want to thank the witnesses 
that came to testify in your behalf. They need not have, as far 
as I was concerned, because I know of your fine work and your 
commitment . 

I have known you from the early '70s in terms of 
your work. I was very impressed by the things that Mayor Rudin 
said, and also all of my other friends sitting here. Senator 

And your record speaks for itself. 

I want to publicly thank you, Ralph, for always 
being of assistance to me personally, and particularly in 
pursuit of my goals and objectives on the Select Committee for 
Admissions. I appreciate the fact, And I want it known in this 
body, that you attended several hearings on the Select Committee 
on UC Admissions. And you brought some interesting people to 
the hearing, who gave a lot of good input, and I thank you for 
your work. 

Now, I'd like to go to the same question that I 
asked the other applicants about, what will you do as you sit 
and wait as a Regent for the reply from the high schools about 


their numbers of students who would qualify? Are you just going 
to sit there, complaisantly, or will you be proactive? 

MR. OCHOA: Senator Hughes, thank you for the 
compliments . 

I am not sitting passively. One of the things 
that I've been able to do, because I'm convinced that the good 
colleagues that I have on the Board of Regents are anxious to 
take the right direction, but we have different backgrounds. 
And my background in education and in the communities that we're 
attempting to outreach, I've set up and accomplished already a 
number of meetings that include the Chancellors, up and down the 
state, at the UC campuses. And those venues have included 
meetings with the superintendents of schools in those areas, and 
those Regents that live in the area. 

For instance, in Los Angeles, about two months 
ago, we had a meeting that included Chancellor Carnesale at 
UCLA, Rubin Sacadillas, the relatively new Superintendent at 
L.A. Unified School District. The Regents that attended, other 
than myself, were Tom Sales, Velma Montoya, Max Espinoza, the 
Student Regent from UCLA. There were other persons from the 
staff there. 

But it gave us all a chance in those discussions 
to understand what the outreach is, and whether the programs are 
really working. And it gave those particular Regents an 
opportunity to understand from the Superintendent of Schools, 
what he needs, what's working, and what isn't. 

We have had — I have been instrumental in 
setting those kinds of meetings up. In Palm Springs, Ray 


Orbach, the Chancellor at Riverside, came out to Palm Springs, 
also Regent Sue Johnson. We had elected members of that school 
board there with the Superintendent. 

And Palm Springs, you ask why, it's 52 percent 
Latino population, with Latinos who work in the restaurants and 
other of those service kinds of jobs, mostly Spanish speaking. 
And we are inaugurating in September three specific programs, 
like the partnership program, in order to get to youngsters in 
the third and fourth grade and move them through. 

We've had those kinds of meetings, and Chancellor 
-- excuse me -- and Regent Chandler was with me in Fresno, with 
the Superintendent and several of the programs there. 

We were also able to do that here in Sacramento 
with Chancellor Vanderhoef and about twelve of the 
superintendents of the outlying areas to go through and be able 
to measure what these particular programs can and can't do. 

I've also had a chance, as you know, because 
I've been working with your staff on some of these, working with 
Professor Weideman, who is one of the movers for boys in the 
Academic Senate. 

When this project presented to the Regents about 
two months ago, there were, I think, about eight or nine 
legitimate questions or concerns that were raised by the 
Regents. So, I've being working with Professor Weideman to make 
sure that there are the appropriate amount of due diligence for 
clear answers, so that in a month, certainly not more than two 
months, that'll be before us, and we'll be able to work through 
that, hopefully, to accomplish that 4 percent issue. 


Lastly, I would say that some of those concerns 
are whether the 4 percent would displace those students that are 
right now going through the existing application process. 
That's a public media concern, but I would lastly say that the 4 
percent issue does not impact on the existing application issue 
for the top 12-1/2 percent graduates. Senator. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Just a comment. 

Again, we have until after the election to make a 
determination on this. I would point out that your predecessor 
was up for a short-term appointment. He was rejected. 

What we're doing with these is holding them in 
abeyance, pending the outcome of the election. 

But I do thank the Regents, and thank all of the 
witnesses . 

MR. OCHOA: Thank you. Senator. 

Senators, thank you. 


Senator Costa introducing Mr. Rooney. I think 
this one can be mercifully brief. 


CHAIRMAN BURTON: And go ahead. Senator Costa. 

SENATOR COSTA: Thank you very much, 
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee. 

I don't think that Mr. Rooney needs an 
introduction, because I think for many of us, we've had an 
opportunity to work with him in a number of areas and 
capacities . 

I think he's doing a good job as it relates to 


the efforts with the Environmental Protection Agency, a 
controversial agency in the State of California, nonetheless, a 
job that needs to be done. 

And while I've not always agreed with this 
gentleman, I think that nonetheless, he is attempting to try to 
implement policy in a fashion that is open and fair, and tries 
to protect the environmental issues that the State of California 
has to face. 

On that basis, I do recommend him for 
confirmation. He serves at the pleasure of the Governor, and as 
it relates to the caveat that the Chairman commented on with the 
previous Board of Regents appointments, in that sense I don't 
think this appointment falls in that same category. 

I would hope that you would confirm him. 


MR. ROONEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of 
the Committee. Thank you. Senator Costa. I agree that the best 
way, perhaps, we could proceed is for me keep my remarks 
extremely short, and then invite any questions that you might 
have about the operation of Cal-EPA. 

I've been the Secretary since October 6th. I am 
very pleased to report to you that we have some 4,000 employees 
who are dedicated to the mission of protecting public health and 
the environment. I think that I've inherited a very good staff 
in those 4,000 people. One of my roles is to keep them 
motivated, to keep them working and focused, and to coordinate 
their efforts so that we don't have duplication and we can 
protect the public health and the environment. 


In a brief nutshell, I've been in state 
government for about four years, first at Food and Agriculture, 
in which I handled some environmental issues, including federal 
implementation for air. 

I think the most important thing for me, though, 
and for you, is for me to answer any questions you might have 
about the operation of the Cal-EPA, and I ' d be happy to answer 
those questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, sir. 

Any questions. Members of the Committee? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Lewis. 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Ayala. 



Ayala Aye. 

Senator Hughes. 


Hughes Aye. Senator Knight. 


Knight Aye. Senator Lewis. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Lewis Aye. Senator Burton. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 
[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
terminated at approximately 3:15 P.M.] 
— ooOoo — 


I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN Wi;i^ESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 

U, / 1998. 

SV O " day of Xy^J^^o^^ 

^^^^'Shorthand Reporter 

Shorthand Reporter 




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August 19, 1998 

Senator John Burton, Chair 
Senate Rules Committee 
State Capitol 
Room 400 

RE: Confirmation Hearing for Peter Rooney as Secretary for 
Environmental Protection 

Dear John: 

It is my understanding that the Senate Rules Committee will review the 
nomination of Peter Rooney for Secretary for Environmental Protection today. 

Because the current Administration will leave office at the end of the year, and 
Mr. Rooney's remaining tenure at the agency will therefore be brief, I do not 
intend to oppose his nomination before the Rules Committee. 

However, I am writing to express my deep concern over the operations of the 
agency Mr. Rooney has overseen for the past several years and to ensure that 
these concerns are made a part of the record of the Rules Committee's 
proceedings on his confirmation. 

CAL-EPA was created in 1991 to consolidate, streamline, and improve state 
environmental protection programs. The agency was created by executive 
reorganization plan, which provided no ability of the Legislature to ensure that 
the goals the agency established for itself were actually met. At the time, the 
Administration pledged to work with interested legislators to fix the problems 
which existed with the agency at its inception; however, to date, no such effort 
has been forthcoming. 


John Burton Page 2 


As a result, the California Environmental Protection Agency has become what 
one capitol reporter referred to as "the oddest duck in state government." 

Specifically, the agency failed to ensure that the public health and water quality 
impacts of MTBE in gasoline were adequately addressed. It is the agency which, 
in the early 1 990's, negotiated the Smog Check II Program which has come 
under such intense criticism and which Senator Peace and others worked to 
repair in this year's budget. It is the agency which, rather than streamlining 
and reducing the costs of government, has added millions of dollars a year in 
increased bureaucracy to the state budget, largely earmarked for political 
appointees and press staff. 

Moreover, from the environmental perspective, the agency has failed to ensure 
that public health and the environment are protected. The agency has publicly 
opposed legislation to protect children's' health and to provide environmental 
justice to minorities and other persons living in lower-income areas of the 

It has delayed for years the issuance of reports designed to reduce known 
toxins such as lead in our environment. And it has failed to achieve even the 
basic commitments the agency made when it was created back in 1 991 . 

These conclusions are not mine. 

In 1 996, the agency appointed its own hand-picked "Blue Ribbon commission" 
to review its performance in streamlining its programs and improving 
environmental quality. That panel concluded that the California's 
environmental programs continue to be fragmented and unaccountable. 

This year, the non-partisan Legislative Analyst's Office issued a strongly- 
worded report on the agency, stating that CAL-EPA is not meeting its goals, 
that it has failed to focus on its mission to protect the environment, and that its 
current structure is inherently inconsistent (see attachment). 

Most recently, I have received the attached letter from Congressmen Dingell 
and Manton complaining about CAL-EPA's unwillingness to respond to 
congressional requests for information on California's Superfund Sites. 


John Burton Page 3 


In sum, these, and numerous other problems with the agency lead one to 
conclude that the agency is in need of a significant overhaul. 

As you know, last week, the Legislature passed a budget trailer bill which 
established a sunset review process for CAL-EPA. This bill would give the 
Legislature the opportunity, after the present Administration has departed, to 
address the numerous problems with the agency. 

In closing, I would simply emphasize that my neutrality on Mr. Rooney's 
confirmation should not be construed as tacit approval- of this agency's 
performance under his tenure. 

Thank you in advance for including my letter in the Rules Committee Record. 



Senator, 1 1th District 



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Senate Publications 

1 020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 


Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 362-R when ordering.